Water in sills

Stephen Ward

Stephen Ward

Active Member
Good morning everyone.
I have a problem with my P6. I am, as a lot of you know, restoring my 1972 2000TC 'The Minstrel'. Having replaced nearly all of the flooring, sill to floor, inner and outer sills on her i have now found another problem. Last week we had a really torrential downpour and I didn't have the cover on The Minstrel. When I went out to her the following morning I noticed a dripping water on the n/s sill. I got down to have a look at it and saw a stream of water coming from the cross member chassis rear seat support. I also drilled a 6mm hole in the n/s sill where the drip was coming from. The water took roughly 8-10 minutes to drain from the sill and from the centre of the cross chassis. I have asked around about this problem and have been told a couple of things. I was told that the older Rovers did have a tendency to let in water in the sill which is why they rust so quick. Also that on the older Rovers there were slot in the sill underneath to help combat this problem. Another thing I was told is that the sills have grommet plugs in them so that they can be taken off to drain the sill. As there was none of the original sill metal on the car when I got it I can neither deny or agree with any of those statements.
The part about this that confuses me is that I though the sills had to be complete with no slots or holes to pass an mot?

Can anyone give me some helpful information regarding my problem, please?
Many thanks in advance
Steve :)
 
I'm not that familiar yet with the P6 structure as many others here, but the box sections of each car must have possibility to vent and drain. Think about condensation getting between cold and warm. If the original sill structure was replaced at your car, you must drill a sufficient number of holes at the lowest horizontal box sections and close it with grommets.
This has nothing to do with rust holes your mot station complains.
Personally I do not close the drain holes with grommets, as to the principle what goes in, will come out.
My former W108 Mercedes came from Italy and I flushed the sill sections with water. What came out, was approx 1 kg of sand each side. The grommets at the front sill end pieces were all in place, so it could not come out and exactly here welding was required.
That's also a reason, why I never use long-term wax or fat but only Fluid Film, which penetrates extremely good.
When you make the holes (i would use 8-10 mm), use grease on your drill.
 
Water will find its way in.

Check from inside the boot and see if there is staining, water can get past the deck bolts and fuel filler.

From the inside lift out the seats. look at the floor and see if there is any evidence of water.

I have seen water seep through the rear bulkhead.
 
Stephen Ward said:
Good morning everyone.
I have a problem with my P6. I am, as a lot of you know, restoring my 1972 2000TC 'The Minstrel'. Having replaced nearly all of the flooring, sill to floor, inner and outer sills on her i have now found another problem. Last week we had a really torrential downpour and I didn't have the cover on The Minstrel. When I went out to her the following morning I noticed a dripping water on the n/s sill. I got down to have a look at it and saw a stream of water coming from the cross member chassis rear seat support. I also drilled a 6mm hole in the n/s sill where the drip was coming from. The water took roughly 8-10 minutes to drain from the sill and from the centre of the cross chassis. I have asked around about this problem and have been told a couple of things. I was told that the older Rovers did have a tendency to let in water in the sill which is why they rust so quick. Also that on the older Rovers there were slot in the sill underneath to help combat this problem. Another thing I was told is that the sills have grommet plugs in them so that they can be taken off to drain the sill. As there was none of the original sill metal on the car when I got it I can neither deny or agree with any of those statements.
The part about this that confuses me is that I though the sills had to be complete with no slots or holes to pass an mot?

Can anyone give me some helpful information regarding my problem, please?
Many thanks in advance
Steve :)
Click to expand...
Many thanks for your input. I will certainly take some of your advice. It is just annoying how much water is getting in. I know I have got to adjust the doors as the door seals aren't too brilliant and have flattened off with age. Many thanks again.....Steve
 
Hi Arthur.
I am pretty certain it's not coming in from the rear bulkhead as far as I can see. I am going to run a hosepipe over the roof and see where it's leaking. As I just replied to the last comment, I am going to take a lot of the advice I am given and work on it. I only have a small part off the o/s sill left to replace. I will get that sorted then do a lot of testing. It seems to be only the n/s that retains the water in any volume as the o/s sill was totally dry. I do think a lot of the water is getting in through the door seals. I am going to split the seals in certain place and pump some silicone sealer in them to bolster them and then shut the doors creating a new sealing point. I also think when I replaced the window weather seals I may not have got the angle on the window frames perfectly right and they may need adjusting to push them in more towards the door seals and frames. A lot of it is trial and error to get it right. Thanks again for your input, m8.
 
If it was a lot of water getting past the door seals you would have wet carpets.

The water still needs to get into the sill.

The original sills have drain holes so worth putting a couple in if you havent got any.

There is a bad bit behind the wing seals and also the A-post. If you have a lot of water then worth checking.

Do you park level or on a slope?
 
I park it on my front garden which is reasonably level, maybe a slight sloping towarxs the house. Yes there is a lot of water getting in. The rear seat strengthener boxing had about an inch of water in it. When I first got the car there was a lot of water inside the car. And the carpets and sound proofing fibre under the rear set were running with water. I have had both front wings off and replaced most of the metal. There was a fair bit of rusty plating under the bonnet hinges, so I have replaced all that. I will have to do a water test with a hose during the week. I will post the results on an update on this thread. I will drill drain holes in the sills as well. My son and I were talking about drilling holes in the sills and then Waxoyling them. Not so sure that will be wise now. Most of the metal I have replaced has been primed before closing the sill up.
 
roof rails could be a culprit. You need to find a probable entry point and work backwards as Arthuy is I think suggesting. The slope of your parking, along with the position of your drilled holes will tell you a great deal i think?
 
A big thanks to everyone who gave me some great advice. Started do the search today. Working my way along the car. Today I have reseated the doors and door window frames by pushing some plastic tubing around the door seals to expand them again as they had mostly flattened out. Pleased to say the window frames seat better so should hopefully cause a better seal. Had a puddle in the boot when I emptied it this morning as well. That one really bugs me as I had previously resealed the boot rubber weather seal with silicone sealer. Until we had that torrential downpour last week the boot had stayed perfectly dry! Will have to run a hose on the car and try to find the leaks. I hope I am going to be able to seal the worst of the leaks off otherwise I am basically wasting my time. Thanks again, guys.
 
Might be worth removing stainless steel windscreen corner and lower trims by drilling out pop rivets for a look at the pillar.
When rusty allows water to run into inner sills.
Full of holes on my breaker once i removed them.
Good luck,
Clive.
 
It's really not easy to follow the way of water. Following Clive's advise, I would add the front windscreen frame to the bulk of suspects. Forget this, when your front screen was out already. The frame of my screen was rusty (no holes yet) and here's direct connection to the A-post and then to the sills.
Before you are not clear about the devil's route, I would use Fluid Film (Eureka), it' s better to creep under moisture and it is easy to apply. If you do not have a compressor/pressurized gun set, you can use the normal "aerosol" cans and FF's "long" nozzle with which you can reach every part in your sills.
 
clive P62 said:
Might be worth removing stainless steel windscreen corner and lower trims by drilling out pop rivets for a look at the pillar.
When rusty allows water to run into inner sills.
Full of holes on my breaker once i removed them.
Good luck,
Clive.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Clive. Worth a look. Got to try everywhere. Lol
 
Stephen Ward said:
I looked at them yesterday but as I thought they looked ok I didn't disturb them. I think I am going to have to try a running hose from front to rear at different points. Lol
Click to expand...
yes - do that. One mine it did this when i got it and the boot floor was rotten. 3 turns on those nuts and some grease round them sorted it.
 
Took one of the screen chrome corner pieces to see if there was any rust and to what the screen seal was like behind it. There was a lot of dirt in the screen seal. Cleaned it out and put the corner back. Going to try the hose tomorrow and hopefully see where it is leaking.
 
Hi Stephen,
Its not just the corner section that rusts gets into its more the lower stainless pillar trim section.
Forgot to say that water also leaks into boot from a damaged/perished fuel filler rubber gaiter.
Clive.
 
Thanks, Clive. It's raining today so I hope to get the chance to get in the car today and see if I can see any water running down anywhere. Will update if I do. Just want to say thank you to everyone who has given me advice and your help is really appreciated.........Steve :)
 
I meant to add in my last comment that I only took the corner piece off as it was getting late in the day and wouldn't have enough time to strip the chrome. I just done the corner really to give me an idea as to how it all comes off and whether or not it would be a time consuming job. I'm really restricted for spare time atm. The way things are going lately, I'll be lucky to finish The Minstrel this year.
 
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