V8 engine rebuild has started (3500)

westOz74P6B

westOz74P6B

Member
I've not long sent off the block to the engine reconditioner (reputable of course) to make a start on my engine rebuild.
I'm using the engine out of my spares car as it has the oil seals fitted being a '76 car, and will install it in my '74 when ready.
I hope to build a strong reliable road engine with upgrades and improvements as the rebuild progresses and as $$$ will permit albeit keeping the standard 3500 capacity.
So for now its has a chemical clean (ally suitable)
Then all core plugs to be replaced
replace cam bearings
010" rebore and hone
Deck the tops of the blocks
Main tunnel align hone
Fitting an ARP main stud kit which needs to have a main tunnel hone and align anyway because of the higher torque imposed by using studs.

I have David Hardcastle's book "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" to help with mods and improvements along the way but am open to any suggestions or hints that may be forthcoming.

The crank I had reground by another works but when I noticed the oil holes hadn't been rechamfered and smoothed off I am now with my latest reconditioner and will have him complete the oil holes and polish and more than likely a full balance of crank and reciprocating assembly when $$$ have been saved up.

A mild road cam is on the cards and improvements to ignition/dissy as well as I have been drooling over the MSD type ignition systems and of course edelbrock carby and manifold, but we'll wait and see on the exotic items!!!

pics of work done to follow when I get the block back,
Regards,
Scott
 
Hi Scott,

Interested in seeing how those improvements work out....

Where abouts in Freo are you?? I live in the southern suburbs.

RT.
 
Hi RT, I'm actually in Spearwood (which is sort of near Freo), engine still with reconditioner, and I'm waiting patiently or should I say waiting impatiently, He's very busy (which is a good sign) but he's had a few of his chaps off with the flu lately as well...
Regards,
Scott
 
Update #1, block work has been done, 020" bore and hone, deck block, align hone main tunnel, cam brgs fitted, sleeves pinned (no cost), main studs fitted (no cost). Block work cost so far is $935 (including hot wash) but not including crank work, heads, gaskets etc. He was able to purchase hypertec pistons for reasonable $216 set, so expense in machining work is offset by his purchasing power from supplier which was good considering prices I've seen on Internet for a set of pistons. Crank has had 010" regrind but yet to send in for balance etc, will post pics of block soon,
Scott
 
Sounds great so far, had you considered a hi flow oil pump? just thinking of top end lubrication issues on RV8 rockershafts.


Graeme
 
ghce wrote,...
had you considered a hi flow oil pump? just thinking of top end lubrication issues on RV8 rockershafts.
Click to expand...

If anything the Rover V8 will tend to oversupply oil to the rockershafts rather than the converse. The main reason that some engines seem to have a less than satisfactory oil delivery to their rocker assemblies is down to insufficient routine maintenance, namely oil and filter changes. The galleries that supply the oil to the shafts are only 3/16", so any debris that is floating about can eventually reduce or stop oil flow. Proper maintenance is the key.

Ron.
 
Thanks guys for your input (keep it coming!), thanks Graeme for the reminder as I had seen the upgrade kit on the Real Steel website (but it had dropped off my radar) and it looks to be a worthwhile upgrade for the outlay, say about under $100AUS landed here in Oz, and considering the dollars spent so far to ensure a reliable/improved end result it seems a good proposition to protect investment once engine is up and running.

Real Steel says that the kit will improve pressure and volume which “was marginal to begin with” and reading David Hardcastle’s book he says that the oil pump “will certainly benefit from an uprating”

I do notice on the oil pressure gauge the (drop between) difference at 80kph and idle and as the engine warms up, so this improvement along with an oil cooler (which is also under consideration) can only better the original engines shortcomings. DH also mentions that John Wolfe Racing do a kit as well which I’m yet to price.

DH’s book also mentions the “cheap tweak” by fitting the pressure relief spring used on the MGB V8 and was wondering to use this in conjunction with the upgrade?? and DH mentions the (J.E Engineering) “tadpole” non stick valve which is designed to make it “virtually impossible to seize” as the standard plain steel cylinder is prone to do??, not that I’ve had any problem with mine (so far) but will price this as well and put it down for consideration.

I also noticed the timing cover on the engine out of the ’76 donor car had the extra bearing support for the oil pump shaft (and the fuel pump flange cast out, electric fuel pump factory fitted as the wiring goes into the loom) so the ’76 must have had an early SD1 engine fitted at the NZ factory.
(EDIT; just checked photos in DH's book and definately pre SD1 block with SD1 timing cover, so maybe there was engine assembly at NZ as well?? with a bit of mish mash going on, as Chris alluded to in another thread the probability for this to happen at the P6B ending and SD1 intro would not be suprising.)

It can be a bit overwhelming deciding on what to do at the same time balancing what one can afford, but your help makes it easier to come to a decision. Do UK companies offer exchange engines? just wondering on cost comparison compared to what I've spent so far here in Oz. There is no exchange engine source here in WA (unless there are on the Eastern seaboard and NZ) but taking it to a reputable engine works allows for a bit of meticulous attention to detail and control otherwise missing on an exchange basis. I'm compiling quite a dossier of info regarding whats available as improvements go, but as I say got to watch the budget and not go too silly!! so it's a slow steady rebuild at the moment.
Thanks again guys,
Scott
 
westOz74P6B said:
DH’s book also mentions the “cheap tweak” by fitting the pressure relief spring used on the MGB V8 and was wondering to use this in conjunction with the upgrade?? and DH mentions the (J.E Engineering) “tadpole” non stick valve which is designed to make it “virtually impossible to seize” as the standard plain steel cylinder is prone to do??, not that I’ve had any problem with mine (so far) but will price this as well and put it down for consideration.

[/quote

Hi Scott .
With regard to the uprated spring . o.k as an upgrade on it's own , definitely not with the uprated oil pump kit ! If you go for the real steel kit ( as i and a few guys here have ) it will warn you against it in the fitting instructions , and to use a new standard spring .
Click to expand...
 
thanks for that Stina, learning off those who have done this before is a wonderful thing, thats one thing eliminated from the equation, I'm more leaning towards the upgrade kit then with new standard spring. Seems reasonable at GBP32.85 (probably gone up since my last web enquiry, will email them) and 1.52 for a spring, cheap insurance.
Scott
 
Hi Scott,

As with most things there is always a down side, and in the case of increasing the pressure delivered by the oil pump it lies with the distributor / camshaft skew gears. If an engine runs more than 60psi then you can be sure that your skew gears will fail in a very short space of time.

Running either the standard P6 oil pump or the SD1 / Range Rover / Discovery, (the latter three all use the same oil pump gears), with standard factory oil pressure is entirely satisfactory for all road going concerns. Provided the oil and filter are changed on a regular basis the Rover V8 will run and continue to run for 200,000 Miles plus as my original 3.5 did.

Ron.
 
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Hi Scott,

As with most things there is always a down side, and in the case of increasing the pressure delivered by the oil pump it lies with the distributor / camshaft skew gears. If an engine runs more than 60psi then you can be sure that your skew gears will fail in a very short space of time.
Ron.[/quote

Hence the reason not to use the uprated pressure relief spring . Ron explained the reason better than me . If you go ahead be sure to fit it as per the instructions , be prepared for some mixing and matching of standard and kit supplied gaskets between the spacer plate ( supplied in kit ) to gain the correct end float between the gears and the base plate of the pump . also use a new relief valve plunger . I had to polish mine as it was sticking , so the uprated non stick plunger you mention sounds a good idea ( do you have a link to that part ?
When fitted you can expect around 20 psi hot tickover :D
Click to expand...
 
Hi Stina, got a reply from JE Engineering and their modified "tadpole" type of oil pressure relief valve is stll available from them, price is GBP18.00 and comes with a new standard spring (confirmed with them that it is a standard spring). The email from them said "they are designed to avoid sticking, particularly if the vehicle is taken off the road for any length of time."

JE Engineering website is; http://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://w ... xExVZdqbDA

JE Engineering contact phone# is; +44 (0)24 76 305018

JE Engineering Ltd
Siskin Drive
Middlemarch Business Park
Coventry CV3 4FJ England
 
Thanks for that Scott , Saw one on ebay too , that was 25 quid , had a picture of it . I can see how it would work , and might give it a try . :D
 
Pics of rebuild so far;

Main brg caps with ARP studs fitted, it is neccessary to line bore/hone the main tunnel when using studs as they exert a greater tension on the caps than bolts. The studs have a fine thread at the nut end hence the extra tension they can exert. They are (all caps) to be torqued to 80ft/lbs

IMG_5100.jpg


Top of block after machining (decking)

IMG_5102.jpg


Oil holes on crankshaft journals which need chamfering and smoothing off (next job to do) this is the same current condition for all the other journals

IMG_5106.jpg
 
Looking good Scott...
Click to expand...

Thanks Ron,

I have started to quiery what is suitable/quality head gaskets to aim for to suit a standard 3500 block (with in my case a 020" rebore). I've commented on this on Pilkie's tread "Blew rad/head gasket" in the V8 engine section but thought I'd also add it to my engine rebuild thread as well.

I noticed a difference in bore size between the head gaskets supplied to me and the bore on my engine. In the pic below is this acceptable and nothing to worry about or is there a gasket out there that would be a better fit. I don't know if this step difference will cause any problems on compression/ignition and also cause any hot spots at the steel ring leading to preignition?? I'll also ask my engine reconditioner for his advice, maybe I'm worrying too much (no doubt you will tell me) but its just I'm paying close attention to these things as I progress with my rebuild.

IMG_5122.jpg


It's also a pity they don't make these head gaskets handed to suit the heads so the bypass hole at the front doesn't cause this corrosion in pic below

IMG_5121.jpg


I found a Victor Reinz catalouge on the web with gasket bore size info, one listing has a gasket for;
3.5 22D stating a 92.9mm bore,
and another for;
3.9 35D with a 91.5mm bore but has MLS (multi layerd steel?) against it, also there is a 95.6mm bore listed for this engine as well.

Has anyone purchased or had experience with these Victor Reinz gaskets or know if a full gasket set is available from them??? I am also making enquiries with the Elring brand of gaskets to see what they can supply. I saw in another tread someone mentioned using Cometic (multi layerd steel) head gaskets which I googled and found thay are an American brand but a bit on the expensive side at $100US a pop.
The last VRS gasket set (Victor Reinz?? but not branded as such but had Victor Reinz packaged exhaust manifold gaskets) I got when i reconned my heads on my daily had copper rings for the outer row of head bolts (similar to the head gasket pic on Rimmer Bros website) but current gasket I have does not have these.

So there seems to be a few variations out there but I would like to use a quality fitting gasket and I'll wait and see what replies i get from Elring and others.

below is pic of exhaust manifold gaskets supplied with my last VRS gasket set of which I'd never seen this type before, which is made up of three layers of steel finely spot welded together.

IMG_5116.jpg


IMG_5114.jpg


Regards,
Scott
 
westOz74P6B wrote,...
Hi Ron, (nice to have you back)
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott,... :D It is great to be back!!

I always have a little concern when looking at products not normally associated with Rover V8 engines. Have you looked at genuine Land Rover tin gaskets to see if they would fit more suitably? Do you wish to fit tins or would you prefer composites?

If the engine is out of the car, then using studs for head retention will not present a problem, but if the engine is in situ then there may be a problem. I have a niggling thought in the back of my mind that when the studs are fitted, the cylinder heads will foul with the inner guards as you attempt to slide them down, thus preventing their fitment. The same would apply if the cylinder heads were to be removed with the engine in situ, they will foul before clearing the studs. I could be wrong mind, but something is telling me that there might be a problem in waiting.

Ron.
 
I know the heads can be removed and fitted in situ with the exhaust manifolds on, as I did when I reconned the heads last on my daily and I suspect you're right that studs will prevent this and require engine to, at least, be raised a bit to remove heads. I noticed that the ARP studs do have an allen key socket in them at the top but how easy they would be to unscrew using an allen key if ever I needed to remove the heads in situ is yet to be seen. My engine reconditioner says they just need to be nipped up (and apply some nickle anti-sieze to boot) as the rest of the tension is taken at the top nut, so maybe/hopefully the studs can be removed to allow the heads to be taken off in situ??.
As far as head gaskets go I'll see what response I get back from enquiries I've made on availability of other brands, but I might (as you suggest) obtain a set of genuine tin gaskets and see how they fit. I'd use composite if the fitment and quality is right, but be more than happy to use tin if a better fit is obtainable regarding bore size, I should have paid more attention when I took the old tin gaskets off to see how they compared borewise.

Scott
 
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