Unplugged everywhere...

[P6bornot]

Hi Guys,
I decided to start delving into the lack of working electrical equipment and took a peek behind the radio speaker...
Attached is a photo of what I found...
A mysterious blue wire that turned out to be the power supply to the radio that wasn't working... the wire and inline fuse holder chewed, the supply all the way through.. first issue resolved.. radio now makes radio crackling sounds... Fortunately there seems to be no other chewing damage..
The question now is, have the rest of these been disconnected because of issues, visiting rodents or previous owners not knowing what's going on..
I have what I assume are heater control wires, top right.. a braided presumably earth wire and a male bullet brown/yellow not connected.
In the centre right, a brown/yellow female. Is this supposed to be on the aforementioned male? What goes on the braided line?
Behind the black (earth?) wire joiner is a heavy white female joiner ignition powered.. no idea what it's for.
I have discovered the whole trans shifter light holder is missing and no obvious wire supply for that either..
Also visible is the presumed missing choke light switch, one connector off. Neither seem to get power.. also no idea how it's mounted/clamped to the choke, although in its current loose position it can't be fitted nor can the correct mounting nut because there's no room, so that can be solved when I find another console.
At present I have no heater fan or wipers. I believe these share a power supply? Fortunately there is no sign of the dreaded over heated fuse box. Perhaps because someone added repays some years ago on the headlights..
So I need some guidance please, particularly on testing/getting the heater fan and wipers working...
Grateful for any input...
Cheers,
Chris

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Hi P6bornot. I can help with some at this stage - more once I check couple things I have been in my rear speaker area more than once over past years!
So the braided earth is for heater - it earths the metal heater fan control rod. It should be connected to the black main earth female bullet connector.
I can see your choke light unit laying on the floor- it’s likely the round clip that secured it into position on the choke cable, is missing. Mine was so I used clank ties to secure it in position but was not easy no room in there for fat fingers. I know have a replacement unit to fit when I am up for the challenge!. I can take a pic of it for you later so you can see the clamp part. One spade connector is connected other is not - if it were your choke light would be on all the time - mine was!
I can also see the choke cable securing nut which secured cable tight to the console - so I am guessing your choke is loose!

Heater: yes brown stripe is heater. It should connect to the female in line connector. The 2 position speeds are selected via the lever. 2 speeds = 2 speeds.
IIRC wiper motor is on its own fuse as is heater motor as both are highish current draws. You need to check for power on the feed to heater (female brown strip). Heater has connections engine side on drivers side - good place check and can disconnect wires there for feed into motor.

Check wiper motor area on passenger side under bonnet at back - I was lucky I had a mouse nest in there right next to motor mounting (it’s nice n cosy area for a mouse) but no signs of any chewing all wires left alone! However may be your less lucky….

Rodents constant problem in winter my garage has small excess points and we’re out in countryside so have to be vigilant the damage they can do unchecked is huge!

I can help more once I check couple things - white is ignition feed but it’s difficult to make too much more out from pic sorry - perhaps pic taken slightly farther away?

Will ping some pics in couple hours when I am due to go out to garage.

Am sure the proper experts I know are here will help I am just a layman in comparison they have been so helpful to me and continue to learn from them.

Dave

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Just noticed your black earth wire female connector has a thinner black wire connected to it - I think this thinner black wire is ‘alien’ - re not originally there. The braided connector from heater lever likely should/used to be connected to that. Incidentally I found my heater worked perfectly ok with this braided earth disconnected - it was only recently I discovered mine was just floating around behind speaker having been disconnected so the black earth could be used for radio i suspect. I put a 4 way female connector on the earth so I can earth 2 wires in it. Once you send couple more clearer pics can make out more perhaps.

Dave

 

[P6bornot]

Thanks I'll have a look tomorrow and see where the other earth wire goes..
From what I understand if the wiring diagram I've seen, power goes from the fuse to the heater fan, via the resistor to one speed control wire and the switch to earth and the other wire direct from the fan to the switch and earth.
That means I should have power to either or both the females joining to the switch..
Another thing to check..

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Sounds right but I have not yet delved into heater wiring too much it sounds right as lever simply moves from one connection to another as you push it down.
I have attatched a few pics - we all like pics-.
A few are of the child light switch block and how it connects to the choke cable metal end. You can also see the wire colours.
The round clip/clamp simple secured it in place - the round spring pin in middle of the block lines up with the middle hole in choke end and as you pull choke you can see on one pic the inner choke cable as 2 small bits taken out like little slops - these allow spring pin to extend and make circuit in the block. Pushing choke in pushing spring pin in and opens circuit. I believe these choke blocks switches are available via Land Rover spares? Not tried. This is my spare one that is going on my car - however I have successfully used small cable ties to clamp my switch into right position and it works ok.

I also include pics of heater wiring where goes into heater box and wiper wiring and fuse box cover showing wiper and heater fuses - so 2 separate feeds. In my view both should be modified with relays to take high current these use away from the weak fuse box.

There is also a pic showing rear of heater motor lever - you can see the 2 wires that attach to the 2 copper round connection points that look to me to provide an earth to the lever which explains why lever has the earth braid - so it has a good solid earth. The lever assembly is connected to the plastic console via 2 black small screws. The wire colours are
Brown yellow stripe -full speed connection
Brown black stripe- slow speed connection.

Hope this all helps.

Dave

 

[P6bornot]

Well a little more investigation has only added more questions..
Attached is another photo of the disconnected wiring and also of the fuse box area.
In the console wiring, you can see some of what I was saying:
Behind the black earth wire to the joiner there is a white lead with connector that doesnt appear to be used
Directly above the earth connector is a dual connector with 2 brown and green tracers, also don't appear to be used
Leaning against the modern inline fuse holder pointing upwards is a connector with two very heavy white wires with brown tracers.. again no apparent use...

In chasing the heater wires, I took a look at the fusebox area again...
The first thing I noticed was a number of shorter, but original Lucas fuses. I noted on another post that people were suggesting this was a problem.
Then the heater wiring got interesting...
On the right of the fusebox, you see a grey wire, brown tracer with a connector and the right side of that has a yellow tag..
That connection has power on ignition.. the yellow sleeve when you turn it around has the word Heater printed on it. It looks very factory/professional but doesnt appear to go to the heater fuse in the fusebox.
I started looking at this area as when looking the heater wires in the engine bay, I found a heavy light brown/grey wire going into the passenger side of the heater box that has been added. It runs back inside through the same hole as the loom and can be seen in the photo in the middle going to a piggy back, taped up red/white wire onto the relay. Seems its not related to the heater?
I have since found the original heater wire connector on the driver side.
Making this a bit more difficult is that I believe this is a NZ assembled car and the wiring diagram I have doesn't seem to use grey wires...
I'll do some continuity testing to try and establish which wires under the console we've discussed if any are the ones at the plug in the engine bay.
Possibly add some external power to test if the heater blower actually runs before connecting.

So 2 new questions..
If the heater fan isn't working, can it be removed without pulling the whole heater box out?
How do you remove the "wood" panel section on the passenger side shelf? I need to get to the wiring from the fusebox area where it comes out above the fusebox after going throught the steel..
If you look carefully you'll see a few burnt wires I'd like to replace. I believe they aren't in use as I mentioned elsewhere, I found an old invoice from an auto elec who "fixed" the wipers by bypassing the delay as he noted it was the cause of the burnt wires. I don't like them being there and have no idea if any are live or an issue. I'd eventually like to reinstate the wiper delay once I get the actual wipers to work...

 

[colnerov]

The slate (grey) colour is not a commonly used colour code in British auto wiring, which given your location could be for A/C where fitted to either power or control it, hence the 'heater' label. You need to remove the heater box to access the fan motor because it comes in from behind.

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Wow the fuse box area is a tad messy and it’s going to take some time and working out to sort that plus it’s not a U.K. car so I won’t try to help on that sorry but as I said for the heater side in console I can see from pic you have a brown yellow strip bullet that should be connected to the female of same brown yellow strip as per my pic. On choke side the blue white should be connected to male spade on the switch unit that normally is secured to top of choke cable as per previous pics. I note that my U.K. choke light switch wiring has a single yellow white stripe cable - yours as 2 cables yellow white stripe that connect to male spade. Not sure why that is. The negative braid from heater control rod lever should be connected to the earth bullet (black wire) and the small black wire also may need to be found a new earth to use the bullet.

Dave

 

[Phil Robson]

There is also a pic showing rear of heater motor lever - you can see the 2 wires that attach to the 2 copper round connection points that look to me to provide an earth to the lever which explains why lever has the earth braid - so it has a good solid earth.

Dave

My earth is loose on ‘BOP’, Dave & the heater motor is currently not working.

Where should it be plugged into, as I can’t seem to find a suitable connector.

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Hi Phil.

Yes that would make sense as the earth wire must be connected to earth so that the lever when in either slow or fast position, can provide a return for the motor feeds.

Behind the radio speaker there should be a black wire with a Lucas round female end - this is for the end of the braided wire that should have a male Lucas bullet to push into the earth wire. I have known some folks to pull the braid out and use the black wire to Earth a radio! I can find a pic if you need to show that area.


If you don’t seem to have a black wire or things have been changed just sort an Earth point to the body so this braid is earthed and is a neutral return then all should be well.


All best


Dave

 

[DaveRover3500s]

In case this helps: 86 is the heater fan motor and NY (brown -yellow) and NB (brown black) wires from motor to lever connections which then via a Lucas type connector on the braid provide earth through a black wire.

Dave

 

[Phil Robson]

Thank you very much Dave.

I'll have a rummage over the weekend & hopefully sort it

 

[Phil Robson]

I've managed to find an earth connector, but this hasn't helped with the heater blower . This is on the left in the photo.

So I wondered if there is a live feed to the motor & have tested each of the wires in the picture, but neither seems to be live when the ignition is on:



I've checked the fuse & it's fine, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what's wrong . It was working a few days ago, but stopped part way through a journey. Any ideas, please?

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Ok so both those wires brown yellow and brown black are Earth returns so not live.

The brown green from rear of fuse box is direct live to the heater motor via the connector near the heater motor itself. If you have proper circuit voltage tester this is really what you need. The volts to the heater is direct via the brown green to purple brown wire (via connector) and is permanent so check if voltage on that at the heater wire connector in engine bay. The feed to the fuse is on same feed from the ignition contact that also feeds the windscreen wipers and heated rear screen (assuming your series 2 car?) it’s a weak spot on the back of fuse box - if you have no feed to heater motor via brown green from the fuse box then suggest check fuse tongs are tight on fuse that’s often a problem which causes open circuit there. If it’s ok take 2 screws that hold fuse box to bulk head (suggest take battery negy off so no power just in case) then check behind for burning melting behind fuse around here - do your wipers work ok?
Sorry if it’s not series 2 I am not sure of series 1 circuit.

That’s a start for you hopefully mate it’s helpful

Dave

 

[BrianMac123]

I've managed to find an earth connector, but this hasn't helped with the heater blower . This is on the left in the photo.

So I wondered if there is a live feed to the motor & have tested each of the wires in the picture, but neither seems to be live when the ignition is on:

View attachment 28618

I've checked the fuse & it's fine, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what's wrong . It was working a few days ago, but stopped part way through a journey. Any ideas, please?

I've just been trying to get the original radio out of a "donor car" Phil. How did you do it?

 

[mikecoombs]

Actually both those wires should be live. It sounds/looks like your switch is not contacting properly. its held in by the bolt on the right of the photo and a second one below it. The flap lever contacts buttons as you move it The two wires attach to the buttons (103 and 104 on diagram). there is a spring setup to help them hold contact. Later (most) switches us a plastic chassis which can melt and distort if contact is poor for some reason. That causes the connection to fail. Earthing either of those two wires in the top circle should operate the heater motor either fast or slow depending on wire. Dave has a picture of the mechanism above , top left corner one. Note that's the metal version. Plastic one is the same but black plastic...The actual pivot for the lever is on the heater box so you need to check the contact plate is actually aligning with the buttons AND the lever is properly screwed into the box end shaft nice and tight.

Radios have a screw at the back side that goes into the tab you can see in your photo. Some may have a rear screw attached to a strap if radio is aftermarket.

 

[DaveRover3500s]

Agree Mike they will be live IF the motor or resistors on the ‘return’ path out of the motor are not open circuit. The feed to the motor from fuse box is only via the brown green wire from fuse box (brown purple wire after the connector- the actual heater motor wire). That should show a 12v supply to the motor as soon as ignition switch is put to position 2. So a multi meter should show 12v into the motor. If motor is getting feed into it but nothing out there is an open circuit in the motor or on output side. I would 1st ensure there is a feed to the motor and into the motor.

Dave

 

[Phil Robson]

I've just been trying to get the original radio out of a "donor car" Phil. How did you do it?

My radio is an aftermarket one Brian, but IIRC the original radio has some tabs on the top that need to be pushed down so that they clear the cage when you pull the radio out.

I may have an older set up & will post a picture if I can find it

 

[Phil Robson]

This radio was in my parents' first TC (1967). I'm not sure if the 'cage' is standard or not for the period, but it does have two cut-outs. Just one has the tab that needs to be pushed forward to release it. (How you get to it when it's installed, is another matter.... )

 

[Johnny The Fox]

I have just had this, checked the continuity of the earth return via the speed selector switch all fine. Was showing a voltage at the Brown/Green wire at the three way connector adjacent to the steering box /bulkhead. Still not working. With the ignition off, i rigged a temporary supply via a spare battery and some leads with crocodile clips at the battery end. Connected the positive to the Brown/purple wire to the heater fan motor and the earth to the car body via the starter relay mounting, operated the speed selector the fan worked..
Rechecked the voltage at the Brown/green wire it was 10.29 V
Checked the 15 amp fuse in the fuse box for the heater motor, it looked fine, not blown. Removed it the contacts were not over heated or damaged. Checked the continuity of the fuse and got around 123 ohms, not good hence only 10.29 V at the positive feed. The fuse had developed a high resistance either because due to the hot weather the fan is on high causing high current to flow partially melting the fuse at the contact cap end. Visual inspection of the fuse showed no visible damage, no melted wire. Changed the fuse and normal service is resumed.
But i will be inserting a relay into the heater motor circuit to remove the high current damaging my new OE fuse box.