Turn Key, Nothing - Non-Starter

T

TheCamel

New Member
Turn key. No clicking nothing.
I'm going to have to follow the cables with a test lamp.
I know from the wiring diagram i need to locate a box which has four wires coming from it.
Is this the box just inside the engine bay just below the windscreen and fixed on the driver side.
In the drivers side glove box there is a small cylinrical metal tube with wires coming from it. (Is this relavent)
Is there a device (switch) that is connected to the gearbox which stops the power getting to the starter motor if the gearbox is not in N or P
If anyone knows the location of the various bits i need to check from ignition switch to starter motor please let me know.
I found another post about non starting engine when brake fluid to low. I have just rebuilt the servo and bleed the brakes. Is this a red herring or could this be playing a part in the investigation process?
Battery charged. Yes
Connections tight. Yes
Starter not even trying to turn.
No clicking.
Fuses in passenger glove box look fine.
Headlights turn on and don't dim.
Starter been hit while key turned.

Any clues.
 
Check the LT wire (small one, switched supply) going to the starter with a test lamp (make sure it's not the small wire for the 12v ign supply if fitted) if that gets a live when you turn the key all of the circuit is OK apart from the motor itself, if not start tracing back through the relay and the inhibitor switch.(The swich which only allows it to start in "P" or "N".
 
There's an inhibitor on the gearbox to stop the car being started whilst in gear, I don't think you get any noise from the car if this is what's causing the problem (no clicks etc.). Recent experience with a dodgy solenoid... but I got a single click when turning the key and a gentle tap with the soft end of a hammer got the old girl to kick into life... turned out to be dirty connections.
 
Here's one to log in the memory banks for future use.
Replaced all the seals in the servo.
Bleed the brakes
Turned key to start her....and nothing.
Was getting ready to start tonight when my friend turned up with a test lamp. Looked at the top of the reseviour for the brake fluid and pulled off the spade connector with the two wires attached. Wires came off but left the spade connector on.
Stripped the wire to repair the connection and crimped the spade connector onto the wire. Connected it to the top of the reseviour and, i don't know why, decided to turn the igition key. She burst into life with the V8 roar that has been sadly missing for a week.
Stunned. Totally stunned. Stood there with my mouth open. She is alive.........;Alexis is alive. So i went for a drive.



Edited By TheCamel on 1207753748
 
DaveHerns said:
Is that a design feature ? You run out of brake fluid and your engine stops ?
Click to expand...
It wouldn't necessarily stop the engine if what has been said is true, just stop it restarting if it stopped.
To test this theory lift the reservoir cap up so the light comes on then try to start the engine.
I await the results of this test.

Have a look at the wiring diagram to see how the starter circuit is wired through the reservoir switch.
 
I went along with that thought also. So i knocked off the engine took off the wire and tried again. She started.
The only other thought then is that the silver tube inside the reseviour must retain some fluid. If that was drained and the cable removed would she then start. I haven't tried that.
The interesting part is that for about a week she wouldn't start. Bleed the brakes still wouldn't start. Replaced the connection and as the very next thing i tried was to start her. She started.
If it wasn't something to do with 1) the connection 2) now having barke fluid i have no idea why she suddenly started and has not failed since.
I thought the brakes were good before the servo failure but as for after. Wow. You really do need the seatbelts on when you test the brakes otherwise you would end up kissing the windscreen from the inside.
If anyone has any information about this alleged "safety feature" i would be interested.
 
Perhaps the live feed to the brake fluid reservoir then feeds part of the starting circuit , so if the 2 wires are not connected together , power doesn't get through ?
 
The feed comes through the brake warning light to the reservoir cap terminal with two wires, then out again as the second wire on the terminal, through all four pad sensors and the handbrake switch in series. The other wire on the reservoir goes to earth, as does the wire out of the handbrake switch.

Checking the reservoir low fluid switch is a service item.
 
DaveHerns said:
So how does the wire coming adrift stop the car starting ?
I'll have a look at the wiring diagram tomorrow
Click to expand...
It doesn't.
You'll have to look hard to see anything.If you find anything let me know.
???
 
Called round this morning to pay "John the P6" for the servo parts and he asked how things went.
I told him that all went well until i tried to start her up. Told him she was as "dead as a dead thing" after refilling and bleeding the brakes. Without any more information he jumped in and said "i bet you didn't connect the wires back on the top of the brakefluid reseviour did you...." Without saying anything else i asked that he "tells more". He said that the wiring goes via the inhibitor switch and wont allow the engine to start unless the "checks pass" Those being gearbox in P or N and that there is brake fluid present.
:D
 
Right from the start of this I have always assumed the car to be a UK spec (not NADA/Federal) which is something I always do as I have little experience of export models.

Firstly I would ask that you check the wiring diagram to see how the system is wired to work as your friend says it does. I've looked and can see no way that it could, and I've also never come across it in the past 30 plus years either. (There was always the possibility that there was something out there to catch me out though!)

Secondly, now it is starting OK, pull the connector of the reservoir to se if it fails to start when it's disconnected.

I await the result with interest.
 
I think this is the definative set of "what i did"
Before brake rebuild.
I could start her up and get her running off choke. Drive less than a mile and the rev counter would bounce up and down the engine would die. Slip her in N and bring her to rest. Little choke and turn the key and off she would go again. Into D and away. (Not everytime i took her out just sometimes) Always restarted.
Went to her one Sunday started her up ran her and pressed the brake to engage R. Pedel straight to the floor. Checked fuid, nothing. Pulled off vacum pipe and out came the fluid. Removed the servo and took it home. Spoke to "John the P6" and by monday morning all the seals and gaskets were with under the windscreen wiper.
Monday night rebuilt the servo. Friday fitted servo back.
Saturday went to bleed brakes.
Sucked all the old fluid out.
Filled up the reseviour and bleed the brakes.
After Brake Rebuild
Decided to start her up so see if servo made any difference. Turned key and nothing. No clicking. As silent as not turning the key.
Arranged with friend with a test lamp to come up and check the electrics.
Before he arrived i tried to start her. Nothing. Decided to clean the contacts on top of brake reseviour. On the top you have three spade connections. The two one one side had a wire going to each spade connector. The connector on the other side had two wires going to one spade connector. Instead of pulling off the spade connector i broke the wire (didn't mean to, it just broke) leaving the spade connector connected. Striped the wire and crimped it back together, cleaned the flat part with sandpaper and connected it.
Got in and turned the key and she started. Turned her off. Disconnected the cable and turned key. She still started.
Since then i have gone to her, started, warmed her up and drove her. She has not stopped while driving and the brakes are superb.
I haven't gone this far but the big silver thing inside the reseviour. Would that normally be full of fluid? Becuase when she lost the fluide presumably that would have drained away as well, combined with a bad earth and possible this alleged safety feature would have stopped her starting.
Since bleeded the brakes i assume that the silver thing would again contain fluid and the system would be "deemed safe" for starting.
 
I thought that this was a well known problem.

Tom Wilson wrote an article for the P6 News about 3 years ago.

What model of p6 is this, there is a few differences between them all.

Colin
 
This has got nothing to do with the reservoir low fluid warning light switch stopping the starter operating when the fluid is low, BUT the starter relay needs to be earthed to work and if it picks up the same earth as the reservior switch by "piggy-backing" itself into the earth lead on the reservoir cap, then if that wire becomes disconnected then the relay won't work. But low fluid level or pulling the lucars off the reservoir cap won't stop it starting unless the wire form the relay gets pulled of from the lucar.

(I think! ??? I'm beginning to doubt my sanity here. Pass that straitjacket nurse! :p )

Thinking about this further, by wiring the starter relay into a common earth with the reservoir cap, in the event that the reservoir earth broke (so you would never know the fluid was disappearing) in those circumstances the starter would not operate. But that's not the same as the starter not working when the fluid is low.



Edited By harveyp6 on 1208461043
 
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