The largest polluters in the world - the United States, China and India

[falkor]

while we continue to hear, virtually daily, of some report or other that is ringing alarm bells about sea level rise meters high, glaciers melting, coastal cities being flooded and billions of people being displaced, the worst offenders, the United States, China and India say nothing and continue on as normal

it really doesnt matter whether we ban all petrol cars from the road next year, bring in electric cars wholesale the year after and all screw solar panels to our front doors, when these 3 countries ARE NOT INTERESTED!! what we are doing might be of use if it applied across the known world

 

[harveyp6]

The cure is to increase the tax that the UK motorist pays.

 

[GRTV8]

The cure is to increase the tax that the UK motorist pays.

Hear Hear Harveyp6. More tax, the political answer to global warming.

 

[Ban306]

I couldn't agree more, it wont matter one iota we are just a small country, that has jumped on the band wagon to tax its people even more.

 

[ghce]

while we continue to hear, virtually daily, of some report or other that is ringing alarm bells about sea level rise meters high, glaciers melting, coastal cities being flooded and billions of people being displaced, the worst offenders, the United States, China and India say nothing and continue on as normal

it really doesnt matter whether we ban all petrol cars from the road next year, bring in electric cars wholesale the year after and all screw solar panels to our front doors, when these 3 countries ARE NOT INTERESTED!! what we are doing might be of use if it applied across the known world

Its easy to be confused by statistics and click bait headlines however the reality can be far different than the media or activist would have us know.

To take very good example of this you only need to look at China, a country that has taken some of the most proactive steps at an official government level and at a local city level to reduce its carbon foot print with very good results as can be seen in these stats per capita List of countries by greenhouse gas emissions per capita - Wikipedia

China is now well down the list well into single digit emissions as opposed to a lot of other first world economies who the media keep very quite about, oh well its easy to blame others rather than look in our own back yards this includes countries such as "Clean Green New Zealand" or Australia.
Interestingly the UK has an almost identical level of emissions as China and is next down in the list.

Bashing China seems to be the in thing but given that China produces a HUGE percentage of manufactured goods for the rest of the world to use and consume and also has the largest population of any individual single land mass country, China's low emissions are quite remarkable or even amazing.

Funny how stats can be twisted for either political or headline ends.

Graeme

 

[falkor]

so true, the latest on China , » Global Construction China to open $30bn coal railway by end of month Deemed the world’s longest heavy freight line, a $30bn railway built to haul coal from China’s northern mines to its eastern and central provinces is set to open by the end of this month

» CNN New coal power plants quietly springing up in China at one time they were opening one new coal fired power station a week

» Reuters China's coal imports have been robust, but winter crunch looms Total coal imports rose 8.1% in the first eight months of the year to 220.8 million tonnes, a gain of 17 million tonnes, according to official customs data.

» Global Work begins on $1.7bn, China-financed coal plant in Turkey. Who would have thought that in 2019 Turkey would build a $1.9 billion Coal fired power station? (answer : China!)

 

[Hobby]

Its easy to be confused by statistics and click bait headlines however the reality can be far different than the media or activist would have us know.

To take very good example of this you only need to look at China, a country that has taken some of the most proactive steps at an official government level and at a local city level to reduce its carbon foot print with very good results as can be seen in these stats per capita List of countries by greenhouse gas emissions per capita - Wikipedia

You are very right that it is easy to be confused by statistics. Yes, China shows next to us, but that's far from the whole story. You also need to look at the size of the country and where the pollution is which tells a very different story.

My daughter spent two years working in China, coming back 18 months ago. Both places she worked in were (in China terms) medium sized cities of several million people. In both cases the only time she saw blue skies and the sun were during China's new year when all the factories shut down for two weeks. The rest of the time there was a grey fug, varying in brightness depending on the time of day. She travelled round quite a bit when she was there and said that other places over there were the same.

As I have asthma she told me NOT to go there as I would struggle to breath properly.

She is now living in Leeds and says that despite the scare stories about pollution over here they are nothing compared with the conditions in China.

The OP is perfectly correct.


Remember the old saying, GHCE, "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"... The latter are the worst lies of all.

 

[ghce]

You are very right that it is easy to be confused by statistics. Yes, China shows next to us, but that's far from the whole story. You also need to look at the size of the country and where the pollution is which tells a very different story.

My daughter spent two years working in China, coming back 18 months ago. Both places she worked in were (in China terms) medium sized cities of several million people. In both cases the only time she saw blue skies and the sun were during China's new year when all the factories shut down for two weeks. The rest of the time there was a grey fug, varying in brightness depending on the time of day. She travelled round quite a bit when she was there and said that other places over there were the same.

As I have asthma she told me NOT to go there as I would struggle to breath properly.

She is now living in Leeds and says that despite the scare stories about pollution over here they are nothing compared with the conditions in China.

The OP is perfectly correct.


Remember the old saying, GHCE, "There are Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"... The latter are the worst lies of all.

Indeed what say is true and your daughter is correct, Chinese cities have a lot sub 10 micron particulates due in part to the still high use of coal for heating and electricity some cities are worse than others. The city I often reside in ( Shenyang) has pollution levels that are thru the roof at times and are much worse than the fabled Beijing smog but these things are changing quite quickly with a lot of new policies some minor such as the government banning the indiscriminate use of fire works and now putting time limits on there use and banning all government purchases of said fireworks or displays. to more practical policies regarding car and truck usage in cities and the closing down of power plants in favour of more environmentally neutral generation.

China has been investing very heavily in alternate energy generation and now far and away the largest producer of world leading efficient solar panels (and extremely cheap too). It also has been building very efficient waste materials to power generators, all these different projects are on a huge scale.

The sub 10 micron stuff is a real killer and has been posited as the main cause of shortened life expectancy figures in China and the rise of cancer/ strokes and heart disease not to mention the obvious respiratory problems. Sometimes in winter I can barley see across from my apartment to the other side of the 10 lane highway to the other apartments but that maybe only happen once or twice a year, normally its ok with the sun shining thru with blue skies.

Waterways are now on the governments radar with some fairly major cleanups going on in various major cities with some impressive success stories.

The trouble with the cities in China is that they are overcrowded, my city officially has about 8 million people however the truth is that it easily exceeds by a big margin 10 million plus, some other cities such as Chongqing have in excess of 20 million people not to mention the sprawling vastness of shanghai and the suburb cities surrounding it.

Its interesting that your daughter did not see blue skies that often, in my industrial capital city its mostly blue skies all year round, where abouts was she?

Graeme

 

[Hobby]

Chengdu and Chongqing(!), both for a year.

The point I was making is that those stats do not bear out the reality of the situation. It also depends on geography and weather which also have a massive effect (Los Angeles anyone!). Stats can be bent to mean anything, and lets be realistic about this, in the case of "global warming" they are not just being bent but broken. There is no way that you can say that China's output of pollutants is anywhere near the (much lower) levels of countries in North West Europe (even in relative terms), reality on the ground does not bear that out. Until the big three, China, USA and India (and others like Russia) admit that they are fiddling the figures and have no real intention of changing we'll never get any change.

 

[Phil Robson]

There are too many of us, consuming too many resources. Full stop.

To encourage people going forward to have fewer children is the biggest step we can take but it probably isn’t quick enough.

Nobody cites this issue due to its adverse economic effects (China has abandoned its 1 child policy I think) or due to religious grounds.

Instead, we are tinkering.

IF man-made global warming is as big as they say, then it is highly likely that the human race is ultimately stuffed. The planet will recover quite nicely until next time.

Considering the farce that is the UK’s approach to Brexit, then getting the world to agree on a serious action plan is not going to happen.

 

[Hobby]

Totally agree Phil.

 

[sdibbers]

Can we keep politics out of the CRF? It’s everywhere else and this is the one place I go to avoid it.

 

[Ban306]

I’m going to have a late lunch,
I think I will have a Brexit on toast

 

[Phil Robson]

Can we keep politics out of the CRF? It’s everywhere else and this is the one place I go to avoid it.

Fair enough, although this is the only social media I know of that you can discuss things without being trolled . I've been on this forum for a long time & have rarely seen any discourtesy

 

[GRTV8]

Can we keep politics out of the CRF? It’s everywhere else and this is the one place I go to avoid it.

A discussion like this may spur us onto converting our ice into electric

 

[falkor]

ice? you lost me there

IF man-made global warming is as big as they say, then it is highly likely that the human race is ultimately stuffed. The planet will recover quite nicely until next time.

Considering the farce that is the UK’s approach to Brexit, then getting the world to agree on a serious action plan is not going to happen.

sadly I agree (I suppose there is a minute possibility of some staging post on Mars getting through somehow!)
I think the word farce is accurately placed for both issues Phil, good one!

 

[Hobby]

ice = internal combustion engine


BTW is this discussion politics? Perhaps "they" are trying to make it that, and that is why nothing constructive is getting done, but personally I don't think it is.

 

[ghce]

ice = internal combustion engine


BTW is this discussion politics? Perhaps "they" are trying to make it that, and that is why nothing constructive is getting done, but personally I don't think it is.

Got to agree, as soon as you bring politics into it nothing constructive happens.

 

[ghce]

Have spent a good part of my free time today reading about Boris and all things related.

My own personal view of politicians is that I wish they would all go away.

I am self employed and have run my own business for more that 30 years and in all that time I have felt that there is very little done by politicians that actually helps in getting things done except for an ever increasing bureaucratic load being dumped as an impediment to business in general, I know that sounds cynical and strictly speaking our societal framework is made stable by using the mechanism of politics and politicians to smooth tensions and provide a functioning frame work by which we all can function.

However in my long and ever growing years I must say that politicians have provided me with endless amusement and entertainment and I am glad that we have Boris, Trump, Clinton, Double Ya Bush to keep us all from getting too bored.


Graeme

 

[Phil Robson]

I am self employed and have run my own business for more that 30 years and in all that time I have felt that there is very little done by politicians that actually helps in getting things done except for an ever increasing bureaucratic load being dumped as an impediment to business in general

I am in a virtually identical position & share your sentiments. Whatever political persuasion you are, this is draining the enthusiasm for many business owners & managers.

I know regulations & laws are needed to control the minority in society that don't seem to have much of a conscience, but they do stifle business. I'm not talking about big-money businesses either, just the average small business with perhaps a few employees & trying their utmost. Well over 90% of UK companies registered with Companies House have fewer than 10 employees & the vast majority of the unincorporated business partnerships etc (ie: not on a public list) will be the same. These are the ones that find it hard - they don't have an 'HR' manager or 'Finance Director' etc, all paperwork has to be done as an add-on to the proprietors' daily work.

These days the procedure seems to be far more important than the outcome.