Suspension Failure

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#1
Well I had some unwanted excitement in my Rover yesterday. Climbing a hill, there was a shudder followed by a slight vibration. Then I noticed the smoke in the rear view mirror accompanied by the smell of burning rubber. Not a good combination I dare say!! So I pulled over to find the n/s elbow and the de dion tube attempting to part company. Not being at home, I called for a tow, so my Rover and I travelled the 50 odd km back home courtesy of a tilt tray truck.

Subsequent investigations revealed that of the 8 points of retention, only 3 were left intact. All the others including the studs had sheared off. Inspection revealed the de dion had not seized, so that was good to know. Tomorrow I will fit a spare elbow that I had purchased some 28 years ago, as I don't have a set of easy outs to remove the broken bolts that remain inside the elbow.

I had noted on previous occasions that the de dion bolt holes are not evenly spaced, hence the need for studs to provide correct location. One difference though between my Rover's original elbow and the spare is that the former had two studs, the latter only one. The bolt holes in the former in most cases were blind, in the latter they pass all the way through. A modification by the previous owner of the elbow perhaps?

Ron

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GRTV8

Well-Known Member
#2
Ron
First time Ive heard of this sort of failure. Must be a lot of torque tension in that area .
HT bolts should sort that but still a little unnerving to us masses. I'll be crawling under mine now with a torch.
Elbows look good in the rust dept. - that will create envy to our brethren from the northern hemisphere
 
#3
thinking about the bolts failing, the existing bolts on my car are 43 years old,
perhaps I should replace them all with modern high tensile bolts , just as a precaution? :rolleyes:
Peter
 
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#4
Ron
First time Ive heard of this sort of failure. Must be a lot of torque tension in that area .
HT bolts should sort that but still a little unnerving to us masses. I'll be crawling under mine now with a torch.
Elbows look good in the rust dept. - that will create envy to our brethren from the northern hemisphere
I agree with you , only thing to worry about here is Termites, had a Morgan plus 4 for a couple of years and was concerned that the nasties would get
at the wooden frame of the car, so parked it in a completely free area in the shed , sprayed termite barriers around the posts and the expansion joints in the concrete. Eventually sold it because a bad back made it difficult to enter and exit. such is life on the edge :p
Peter
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#5
Ron
First time Ive heard of this sort of failure. Must be a lot of torque tension in that area .
HT bolts should sort that but still a little unnerving to us masses. I'll be crawling under mine now with a torch.
Elbows look good in the rust dept. - that will create envy to our brethren from the northern hemisphere
Hi Graeme,

The 5 bolts that sheared were the original factory fitted high tensile bolts :eek:
They have most likely come loose, and that has delivered additional forces I can only surmise.

Ron
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#6
thinking about the bolts failing, the existing bolts on my car are 43 years old,
perhaps I should replace them all with modern high tensile bolts , just as a precaution? :rolleyes:
Peter
Hi Peter,

If the loads that the bolts are subjected to are well below the maximum cyclic loading, then provided there is no corrosion, (but having said that, mine had no corrosion evident) they should last for another 43 years. You could certainly change them for peace of mind.

Ron
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
This morning I spent a relaxed 4 hours fitting my spare elbow, and 7 new high tensile 1/4" x 1" bolts complete with star washers. There is only one stud with this elbow, so one new high tensile nut was also fitted. My Rover's original elbow, now 44 years old showed next to no rust, just a very light dusting of surface rust in a few small places on the inside. The quality of the steel is really fabulous I think. The Rovers will last for decades here in Australia.

Road testing delivered a tight and silent ride, much improved over how it was. Many of the roads that I drive are appalling, so knocks from the suspension are pretty normal, but obviously the bolts had been coming loose for some time, so the slow change in feel and sound went un unnoticed. I usually pride myself on being observant, but this one snuck past. Hopefully there will not be a repeat!

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roverp480

Active Member
#8
This morning I spent a relaxed 4 hours fitting my spare elbow, and 7 new high tensile 1/4" x 1" bolts complete with star washers. There is only one stud with this elbow, so one new high tensile nut was also fitted.

Ron.
I definitely wouldn't have used star washers as they can relax in use and loosen. According to my parts list for the 2200, no washers are listed and that corresponds with modern practise .
 

corazon

Well-Known Member
#9
Oops thought I posted this last night..
Hey Ron,
At least it wasn't too dramatic
I'm sure some of the ones I've dealt with have had through-bolts and nuts, with one or two studs for alignment. I wonder if Rover changed it at some stage? Or people have modified them along the way as you say..
Do you think a couple of bolts might have worked loose, compromising the clamping of the rest?
I'm surprised they weren't wired or locked with another method from factory, or were they thread locked?
A through-bolt and nut should have superior clamping to a set screw in a blind tapped hole, so perhaps a good mod to do. Also you wouldn't have any embedded bits of bolt stuck in your elbow if it had been though-bolts to shear
I second Mark's suggestion from the other thread for stepping up the fastener size too, if space allows
Jim
 
#10
Hi Peter,

If the loads that the bolts are subjected to are well below the maximum cyclic loading, then provided there is no corrosion, (but having said that, mine had no corrosion evident) they should last for another 43 years. You could certainly change them for peace of mind.

Ron
Possible over torque setting by a previous over zealous owner? that would certainly lead to future failing.
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#11
I definitely wouldn't have used star washers as they can relax in use and loosen. According to my parts list for the 2200, no washers are listed and that corresponds with modern practise .
Right you are, well in that case I'll take the start washers out when I am fitting the nyloc nuts. Thanks!

Ron.
 
#14
I definitely wouldn't have used star washers as they can relax in use and loosen. According to my parts list for the 2200, no washers are listed and that corresponds with modern practise .
I'm not sure what parts list you're looking at, but all of mine show split lockwashers on the bolts & studs.

Yours
Vern
 

roverp480

Active Member
#16
Sorry All, my apologies, misread the Parts book RTC9844CA dated May 1979. GHF 331 x 16 is a spring washer . Getting my Unipart numbers mixed up.
 
#17
Ahh , everyone seems to be suffering from the "knickers in a twist syndrome" , usually contracted by "forum posting" with to much red grape juice in ones hand?
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#18
Seconded.
My Parts Lists all show 16 off - Spring (not Star) Washers.
And plain nuts, not Nylocs.
Hi Stan,
It does indeed show 16 spring washers, and that is the reason I changed to star washers. All of the bolts that came loose had spring washers under the heads. There are only 4 nuts shown, two at each end of the de dion tube, for the studs.
The replacement elbow that I have used has the bolt holes tapped all the way through, no blind holes as is the case on the original elbow. That is also why I am using nylocs, and not the standard nuts. I don't want them to come loose again!

Ron.
 

vaultsman

Well-Known Member
#19
Whatever works for you, Ron!

I only mentioned plain nuts because I mentioned spring washers.

And it would be very unusual to use spring washers with Nylocs.
 
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