Starter solenoid

Davedstone

Member
I ordered a replacement starter solenoid as the original was faulty in the fact it was shorting and pulling current (with the big help of an auto-electrician) through the cold start feed cable (heavier gauge wire) which goes to the + side of the ignition coil.
In order to replace the solenoid the starter had to come off. Hard work as I am sure man would agree. So replaced the solenoid and with a struggle, lying on my back after about an hour or so re-fitted the starter and another hour or so, blind fitted (with new nut and bolts) the starter motor and all ready to start the car went to replace the negative lead on the battery only yo see a large spark, so knew something is not right. So I disconnected the leads going onto the starter solenoid only to discover short disappears.

I can't believe a new solenoid is faulty. Has anyone got a schematic which indicates what goes where as I have fitted the cables back as they cane off.
Looking at the solenoid below.
Looking at the layout and imagine a clock face.
12 o clock has the supply lead plus the red lead which goes to the alternator. The other red lead goes to the terminal at 1:00 o clock with the other lead going to the other terminal at 4 o clock. This is the starter lead which is from the ignition switch.
Now when I place my meter negative lead to earth and the positive lead to the terminal at 1:00 o clock I get a dead short. Why?
I would appreciate any help or advice.
Thanking everyone in advance.
Best regards,
Dave
 

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Did the starter solenoid come with large Lucar connectors on the one terminal post , or did you fit them . I am just wondering as one small Lucar should be permanently connected to the large terminal going to the actual motor. This is the one that supplies 12 Volts to bypass the coil ballast when starting . Could they be the wrong way round
 
Hi, I am curious about the colours of the leads you mention. If it's standard wiring colours there should be no red lead down there. Has someone been at it in the past possibly doing some re-wiring? There should be brown wires which are battery positive, white and brown tracer from the starter relay to operate the starter and white and yellow for the ballast by-pass to the coil. Are the red wires from the alternator an indication of an alternator change? Take them off and tuck them out of the way to see if that changes matters.

Colin
 
Did the starter solenoid come with large Lucar connectors on the one terminal post , or did you fit them . I am just wondering as one small Lucar should be permanently connected to the large terminal going to the actual motor. This is the one that supplies 12 Volts to bypass the coil ballast when starting . Could they be the wrong way round
Terminals already fitted. Complete solenoid so assumed it was and is "like for like" Thanks for your reply.
 
Hi, I am curious about the colours of the leads you mention. If it's standard wiring colours there should be no red lead down there. Has someone been at it in the past possibly doing some re-wiring? There should be brown wires which are battery positive, white and brown tracer from the starter relay to operate the starter and white and yellow for the ballast by-pass to the coil. Are the red wires from the alternator an indication of an alternator change? Take them off and tuck them out of the way to see if that changes matters.

Colin
I will take pictures later, but at some point there has been some changes as now there are bullet connectors, but can see the red leads x 2 plus the main black lead carrying the 12 vdc from the post inside the driver footwell and the thinner wire which is the cold start from the ignition coil.
Thanks for your reply.
 
Hi, I am curious about the colours of the leads you mention. If it's standard wiring colours there should be no red lead down there. Has someone been at it in the past possibly doing some re-wiring? There should be brown wires which are battery positive, white and brown tracer from the starter relay to operate the starter and white and yellow for the ballast by-pass to the coil. Are the red wires from the alternator an indication of an alternator change? Take them off and tuck them out of the way to see if that changes matters.

Colin
Yes there is a red lead which looks original, but now discovered the real problem after a lot of head scratching. Will post another post on this as there is a short on a supply take-off.
I have attached the main 12 vdc terminal junction block picture.
If you view the picture below, you have a thick brown lead which comes from the batter terminal post located in the driver foot well. Main lead from the positive terminal on the battery with another lead which goes to the top terminal on the starter solenoid and the brown lead in question which goes through the back of the speaker console, up into the bottom of the terminal block.
This is reading 2.2 ohms to chassis and removing the bottom brown lead on the right hand side which has my meter probe in it with the other end clipped to an earth point (chassis) I get a short to earth, which of course when joined to the terminal junction block, presents a short.
Big problem is I have no idea where this goes as it is behind the lower part of the dashboard. Any clues as to what this lead supplies?
Any help would be most welcomed.
 

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If you look at your wiring diagram, the brown lead will be marked 'n' while most of the others will be marked 'nw.'
 
If you look at your wiring diagram, the brown lead will be marked 'n' while most of the others will be marked 'nw.'
Yes I can see in the schematic, but what I can't see is where this lead goes and what it supplies. The next step is to remove the dash as it goes behind and can only feel without seeing it, but it goes into a loom, but unable to see where is comes out. Where is this short. My first thought is perhaps as it goes through a bulkhead or close to part of the metalwork which is part of the dash and perhaps over time, the insulation has worn? Just guessing. Of course if I knew what it feeds, then I would just isolate and put in a new cable to ask as the new supply.
 
Isn't that block the shunt for the ammeter . If so, Two brown wires go to the terminal for the battery as you mention and another brown to the fuse feeding none ignition controlled items ( Purple wires) such as interior lights , horn etc , and also feeds unfused to the hazard flashers.
 
I don't have any wiring diagrams for the 4 pot cars, but the brown wires on my V8 (auto loom) go to 1/. the terminal in the footwell, 2/. top of the fuse as you say, and 3/. to the 6RA relay for the starter on the O/S wing.
 
Isn't that block the shunt for the ammeter . If so, Two brown wires go to the terminal for the battery as you mention and another brown to the fuse feeding none ignition controlled items ( Purple wires) such as interior lights , horn etc , and also feeds unfused to the hazard flashers.
From the starter motor solenoid there is the cold start feed wire to the + terminal on the ignition coil along with the wire which comes from the tachometer which once the car has started is the main feed for the ignition coil.
IMG_20210604_181356.jpg
I don't have any wiring diagrams for the 4 pot cars, but the brown wires on my V8 (auto loom) go to 1/. the terminal in the footwell, 2/. top of the fuse as you say, and 3/. to the 6RA relay for the starter on the O/S wing.
I don't have any wiring diagrams for the 4 pot cars, but the brown wires on my V8 (auto loom) go to 1/. the terminal in the footwell, 2/. top of the fuse as you say, and 3/. to the 6RA relay for the starter on the O/S wing.

The picture which in my full service manual does not show this junction block and my understanding is that it's just for distributing the 12 vdc to the dash and perhaps main fuse block. I am now thinking that if I can discover where the other end of this brown lead goes to without the need of removing even more of the dash, would be to disconnect both ends of this cable which shows a dead short to chassis and just replace with the correct current carrying capacity to connect onto the junction block (see picture) and where this goes too. IMG_20210504_183755.jpg

Below is the driver foot well post which carries the main + battery cable with the brown cable disconnected (removes short from the post) in (top thick black cable goes to top stud on starter solenoid) question which feeds the main junction block above which connects bottom left (with yellow collar) and opposite cable disconnected is the brown one with a short to chassis. This is what I am trying to find.
IMG_20210504_183345.jpg
 
Isn't that block the shunt for the ammeter . If so, Two brown wires go to the terminal for the battery as you mention and another brown to the fuse feeding none ignition controlled items ( Purple wires) such as interior lights , horn etc , and also feeds unfused to the hazard flashers.
I am unsure as I connect my meter to the rear of the ammeter and this does not have a short, so is not connected to the brown wire in question. This is the schematic I have from the main dealer service manual.wiring01.PNG
 
It's the one marked 'N' (browN) which goes between 3 (the junction in your picture in the footwell) to 31 (the shunt) in your other picture which you are calling the main 12 vdc terminal junction block. What is happening to make you think you have a short?
 
It's the one marked 'N' (browN) which goes between 3 (the junction in your picture in the footwell) to 31 (the shunt) in your other picture which you are calling the main 12 vdc terminal junction block. What is happening to make you think you have a short?
I was chasing a red herring. There was an original short caused by the starter solenoid which I replaced and measured a low reading off the post in the drivers foot well thinking I had another fault. Now the car starts which is great and runs nice and smoothly whilst carefully watching the temperature but noticed the ammeter is not working, remaining dead center.
I checked the voltage on the battery which reads just over 13.00 vdc so know it's charging and besides, I replaced the alternator lats year. I need to find why the ammeter has stopped working. I also noticed after the engine was running and about ten minutes later the temperature gauge sat just under halfway, so pleased with this, but as soon as I turned the engine off the water ejected from the overflow pipe.
Last year I removed the radiator and had this re-cored so another problem to find, or perhaps after sitting a while (8 months) I just need to bleed the water system.
Thanks for all your help.
Best wishes.
Dave
 
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