Sparky's winter/spring/summer/autumn work

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
Good work! I have used the Vectra injectors previously and they were great- allowed me to idle leaner than previously and I got better economy overall from them. They were a big improvement over the standard injectors, and generally made the engine feel smoother.
That's good news, I have heard good things about them, but wasn't sure. Sparky idles at around 13.4 at the moment, any leaner and he hunts. The injector service chap said the spray pattern was much better than the single hole ones. In case anyone is searching Rover V8 injectors these are GM90501588 ones and were used in Vauxhalls including Vectras for many years.

I did look at some four hole Bosch ones but they were rather pricey and I managed to get the Vectra ones, including servicing/testing for under £200 for the set of 8 :) (ok there were 13 but 2 were FUBAR, so I have 3 spares)
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
All eight done now. I have placed them in their correct order and all arrows point forward (to the left in the pic) and all little dome shaped bosses on the con rods face each other - so good news :). I wonder where the block has got to :confused:

IMG_1212.jpg

When I took the pistons out, I marked them all with their number, then put them into plastic bags, also numbered so I wouldn't get them mixed up. It was only when I got them back that I realised they were all numbered already - here's 1 and 3 stamped on the underside.

1 and 3.jpg
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
Just had a call from the engineering shop and they want to give the block a light skim after fitting the top hat liners. Fair enough, but they want to cut this bit off as it will make it easier (make a better job of it). Thing is, I haven't the faintest idea what it's there for, or indeed what the hole is for?

The hole will still be there but the rest of it will be level with the block.

Anyone know what it's for?

IDUX6511.jpg
 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
I haven't got a clue, in fact I can't even work out where on the block that even is (cylinder 1?), but I'm going to guess it is some sort of mounting point for when the block castings are machined at the factory before the engines are then assembled. That doesn't help you in the slightest, I realise, but I just wanted to get my surmise in before anybody else. I'm also going to venture you don't need it anymore. Don't listen to me though, let's both see what our more learned colleagues have to say!
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
Yes Al, it's sticking out the side of No. 1 cylinder.

I can't even remember seeing it and was actually questioning whether he had the right block until he sent me that picture.

I'll let him lop it off, but keep it so I can glue it back on if necessary :)
 

jp928

Active Member
My 38d 3.9 block has one of those on no 1. Cyls 2,7,8 have what might be the remains of similar parts that have been cut off vertically, but they do not have horizontal holes/threads in them.
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
Cheers Corazon, that makes sense.

The block is back :)

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It's been in a waterfall bath type thing to remove any swarf from the engineering work, but I have been told to ensure there's none left in there before starting to rebuild it. So I started measuring stuff instead because I'm like that.

According to the official rebuild manual you should insert each piston from the top, with the direction arrow pointing backwards, then measure the gap between the thrust side of the piston and the cylinder wall. This gap should be between 0.02 and 0.045 mm which by my reckoning is around half the thickness of a human hair. My smallest feeler gauge is 0.04mm so I tried that, Then cleaned the cylinder and piston to get rid of any oil film and tried again. I could just get it in but only just the very end of it and it was jammed. So, it's less than 0.04 mm.

I tried three of them, failed to get a definite measurement then gave up and just oiled up the cylinders and put all eight of them. They all moved smoothly and evenly, which is good enough for me.

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Piston rings next. I have a new set of rings and new liners so they should all fit perfectly, but I have been advised to check by measuring. I put one in and eased it down the bore with a piston to ensure it was flat.

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Now the top ring, marked 'GOE STD' should be between 0.3mm and 0.5mm, and my 0.3mm gauge just fitted snuggly with a slight resistance. So, 0.3mm on the dot. The bottom compression ring, marked 'GOE TOP STD' should be between 0.4mm and 0.65mm, and it was spot on 0.4mm. Seems a bit daft marking the lower ring with the word TOP, but it just means that it should be upward in the bore.

Thinking this would take an age, I numbered all of the packets of rings, then fitted all eight of the top rings and measured them all. They were all the same at 0.3mm, then took them out, put them back into their respective packets then did the same with the lower ones, all measuring 0.4mm.

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All measurements were at the lower limit, so fairly tight, but then this is basically a new engine, so I'm ok with that.

Clean up time.

I wheeled the block outside armed with some waste solvent, wire brushes and bits of wire for poking :)

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Prior to doing this I had found this

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This at the bottom of the cylinder and is the end of the bolt hole holding the main caps, and is full of swarf. There are six of these (the other four are blind) and all six were full of bits of aluminium and steel particles.

I poked them all clear and then squirted them all with solvent to clean up the area. I pumped solvent through all of the oil ways then dragged it back inside to the airline. I had lost my air puffer gun but had managed to find this.

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I blew out all of the oil ways, then the threads on the main caps, then filled the head bolt threads with solvent and let them soke before blowing them out with the airline. Then did it all again to be sure :)

I have managed to get a set of original main bearings at a reasonable price and although the build manual says just to put oil on them, I have opted for some Graphogen as I don't know how long it's going to be before I can get it started.

IMG_1251.jpg

The build manual didn't mention the rear oil seal ? but I fitted it anyway, and also it says to fit the cross seals in the rear cap dry whereas all of the youtube videos I have seen say to plaster them in silicone. I put a bit on :) and also a small amount on the horizontal mating surfaces.

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Tourqed up to 4lb/ft then I need to refit the cross bolts with new dowty washers :oops: before torquing any further. No, I don't have any :confused:

So that was it for the time being, although I do need to let V8D know the volume above the piston before they can finish the heads, so I did put piston No. 1 in, and just to make sure they're all the same, I put No.6 in as well. It does look quite purposeful :)

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I have made up a perpex top to measure it, but ran out of time for now.

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I did notice that the surface left by the engineers is very good, and uniform

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Certainly a lot better then it was - don't know why there's a rusty patch in there ?

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cobraboy

Well-Known Member
I built every Lotus Twincam I did using Graphogen, be aware that after break in you need to change the oil filter as the Graphogen blocks up the element. Change again at 500 mls. I switched to this on my V8's - CLEVITE BEARING GUARD/ CAM LUBE COSWORTH YB ETC 200ml | eBay

Are you changing the core plugs ? Don't forget the rear one. Be careful with that one as the cylinder wall is right behind it.
Consider adding the oil drain hoes into the timing chest.
There is usually a spec on the ring packet to work out ring end gap, like this - http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Manuals/RingEndGap.pdf

There is usually crap left in the lifter oil galleries at the ends behind the plugs. Squirt out with parts cleaner can with straw.

Dressing your oil pan flange flat before fitting it helps to prevent leaks.

Gotta love all these engine builds going on at the moment.
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
I built every Lotus Twincam I did using Graphogen, be aware that after break in you need to change the oil filter as the Graphogen blocks up the element. Change again at 500 mls.
Will do, didn't know that :)

Are you changing the core plugs ?
Nope

Consider adding the oil drain hoes into the timing chest.
Err whatta?

There is usually a spec on the ring packet to work out ring end gap, like this - http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/Manuals/RingEndGap.pdf
I followed the spec in the rebuild manual - http://www.landroverresource.com/40_46_V8_overhaul.pdf

There is usually crap left in the lifter oil galleries at the ends behind the plugs. Squirt out with parts cleaner can with straw.
I'll have a look for them, I have some stuff in a straw can which is probably maintenance oil, that'll do it.

Dressing your oil pan flange flat before fitting it helps to prevent leaks.
I have a panel beating kit somewhere, and a dead flat grano floor, good idea :)

Gotta love all these engine builds going on at the moment.
Oh yes, they're just lovely :)
 

mrtask

Well-Known Member
Did skimming the block remove the serial number and compression ration stampings from the cast boss, and if yes, do you have to reinstate them with letter and digit punches?
Have you got the Des Hamill book about RV8s? It shows where to drill two small holes at the front of the valley, to allow oil to get through to the timing chain. The previous owner of my engine had done this when he built it, I discovered when I had the top end apart. Whether it works I couldn't say, but it has to be worth trying out at this stage. In for a penny, etc.
Edit – that rusty patch in the one top hat liner indicates that your motor is junk, and you'll have to scrap it. I'll take it off your hands, save you the effort involved in disposal. :cool:
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
Did skimming the block remove the serial number and compression ration stampings from the cast boss, and if yes, do you have to reinstate them with letter and digit punches?
It was a very light skim so although it made them a little lighter, they are still there.

engine number.jpg

Have you got the Des Hamill book about RV8s? It shows where to drill two small holes at the front of the valley, to allow oil to get through to the timing chain. The previous owner of my engine had done this when he built it, I discovered when I had the top end apart. Whether it works I couldn't say, but it has to be worth trying out at this stage. In for a penny, etc.
I have one called, "How to power tune Rover V8 engines," I'll have a look. I have seen a post or two about on here recently about drilling tiny holes to squirt engine oil onto the dizzy drive. Not something I have considered TBH but I may have a think about it.

Edit – that rusty patch in the one top hat liner indicates that your motor is junk, and you'll have to scrap it. I'll take it off your hands, save you the effort involved in disposal. :cool:
Really? Our scrap man said the same but he offered me a fiver for it :p
 

cobraboy

Well-Known Member
Will do, didn't know that :)



Nope - Please consider replacing, they rust from the inside. Brass ones fitted with Wellseal would be nice.



Err whatta? - A couple of holes from the valley into the timing chain cavity low down helps drain oil back to the sump quicker.



I followed the spec in the rebuild manual - http://www.landroverresource.com/40_46_V8_overhaul.pdf



I'll have a look for them, I have some stuff in a straw can which is probably maintenance oil, that'll do it.



I have a panel beating kit somewhere, and a dead flat grano floor, good idea :)
The holes pull upward so they need peening down again, a socket on a bar under the flange for support and they will tap down again.



Oh yes, they're just lovely :)
Pics pls, every day more pics ...
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
There is usually crap left in the lifter oil galleries at the ends behind the plugs. Squirt out with parts cleaner can with straw.
Didn't have a lot of time tonight, but I did remove the rear plugs (allen head grubs) got a light down the other end, and - clean as a whistle, both of them. Resealed them and managed to get one more piston in. I also managed to find out my dial gauge so I can find the exact TDC ready for dialing in the cam.
 

quattro

Administrator
Staff member
Dowty washers turned up so I cleaned up the crossbolts, and popped them in. I have an idea the sump bolts may be too long, or have been done up too tight in the past ;)

crossbolts.jpg

All main bolts torqued up now, including the cross bolts. I was then going to torque the conrod bolts on the three pistons I had fitted but found the torque was 15lb/ft to start, then 80 degrees? Are the conrod bolts stretch bolts? Stuck again until I can figure that one out, anyone know?

Stretch.jpg

I just did them up F tight (fairly) on pistons one and six, so I could get a measurement of the volume on top of the pistons. Then tried to get the engine block flat so I could take a measurement.

level.jpg

The engine stand does however hold the engine slightly uphill so I couldn't get it completely flat. I have never actually done this before so a bit of trial and error. I set up the dial gauge and then just wiggle the crank from side to side until it peaked, showing that the piston was as high as it would go.

dialed.jpg

Then it was just a case of running some grease around the top of the piston to seal the bore, then some more around the top, and bolt on the perspex sheet I have made up earlier.

perspex.jpg

Not having any paraffin as suggested, I tried using water but that didn't work, as there was too much surface tension. IPA seemed ideal and it worked well except that I ended up chasing a bubble around under the perspex. Trying to lift the engine with one hand to get the bubble central and pipette the IPA in with the other just didn't work either, all I could get was the volume was somewhere around 20ml. So I left the engine to sit where it wanted to and then just marked where the bubble formed and drilled a small hole in the centre of it. That worked, I could just get 10ml in the pipette, drip it in slowly then refill and keep going until full, the air (bubble) coming out of the pilot hole. Piston 1 has a volume of 20.4ml above it.

Just to check, I then tried piston 6, which measured 20.9ml.

Given the standard SD1 head is 35ml, and tin gasket adds a fraction over 3ml, this would give a compression ratio of 9.42:1 on piston 1, and 9.35:1 on piston 6. I can live with that :) unless I have my maths wrong that is.

It won't be left at that, as I am aiming for 9.75:1, but that is just the difference it makes with 0.5ml difference in volume.

I did order some Wellseal as suggested my CB, but I think I may have a little too much :oops:

wellseal.jpg
 
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