Not that I have any intention of putting the spare on top of the boot lid I was just wondering does this place too much strain of the boot hinges and lock mechanism. That spare wheel is mighty heavy and on casual examination the hinges or lock do not seem to be beefed up to take any extra weight. In my view the spare wheel on top of the lid makes the svelte design of the P6 look a bit ungainly and must completely impede rear vision but at the same time I might like to have the option to do it at some point if I need to bring some luggage on a holiday or whatever.
Spare wheel on Bootlid or Not?
- Thread starter Alfaguy
- Start date
ghce
Well-Known Member
It has never been a noted issue so I am guessing it is a non issue. The tire itself where it sits on the aluminium boot lid has a large support bracket underneath, the latch is a non issue as it is not weight bearing, I am guessing that the hinges would only be stressed when you lift the lid. There is also a stay on the left hand passengers side which should be engaged (manually) when the lid is in the up position.
MikeMelb
Active Member
The stay (once clipped into its bracket) engages "automatically" and disengages when closing if you lift the lid a little higher. The wheel certainly inhibits rear vision but was very useful when touring Europe and Israel in 1971-2.
The concept appealed to me so much that when I decided that our Mazda MX5 really does need a spare for out of city touring I bought a secondhand bootlid (also aluminium) and an early series Landrover bonnet mount, married them up and can now carry a full sized spare. I had assumed that it would need an additional strut or support like the P6 but the balance of the lid is such that it stays open with no extra support.
Rear vision is equally impeded especially with the top up (a very rare circumstance) but because cars are quite high and there are many even higher SUVs and 4WDs one can usually see them over the wheel but the side mirrors certainly help.
ButterFingers
Active Member
Has anyone ever thought of fitting it on the inside of the boot lid, no blocked vision and still some room on the boot floor?
GRTV8
Well-Known Member
Would be a right bastard to fit the tyre. I guess you could get the 2nd arf to lay on er back and lift it into place while you do some screwinHas anyone ever thought of fitting it on the inside of the boot lid, no blocked vision and still some room on the boot floor?
Riddler
Active Member
And very expensive. You get a small puncture, fill it with gunk and go to the tyre repair place. You have to pay around £10 to get the puncture fixed (expected) BUT you also have to spend around £30 (at least in the case of the new Mini) to buy a replacement bottle of gunk!! Give me a spare wheel any time.
The main issue I notice is that if your car has a boot kit and previously had a dwarf owner (judging by the packing under the drivers seat when I bought it) then the result of said dwarf struggling to fit the wheel will be a severely dented boot lid! If ever you need to fill these dents, then also due to the nature of aluminium, you are going to need flexible filler, otherwise it WILL crack even if super thin.
I both agree and disagree about the mounting of the wheel. Yes it does look ungainly BUT it is also a signature feature of the P6. And if you do play golf, it is genuinely useful. I can only think they looked at their target market. realized a set of clubs wouldn't go in and panicked. I wonder what proportion of cars actually had it specified new. Certainly, the majority of cars on the road today seem to have this, in the same way many cars have Webastos, presumably as the desirable and easy to fit parts are reused.
Oddly although the boot is small because it opens so wide and very low, it's incredibly practical. Far easier for shopping than my modern VW and because the recycling bin can go in upright, it doesn't leak not-so delicately scented "bin juice" into the car. I also transported 20 packets of tiles in mine putting the car near the bump stops. Doesn't handling get "interesting" with a lot of weight at the rear?
It's an interesting experience driving a well designed motor from the past and understanding why cars have developed the way they have but often design compromise comes with a cost. Certainly you realize what an utterly terrible ride most new cars have in exchange for quite incredible cornering (really, your new hatchback will out-corner a supercar from 30 years ago - great but is it necessary?).
I both agree and disagree about the mounting of the wheel. Yes it does look ungainly BUT it is also a signature feature of the P6. And if you do play golf, it is genuinely useful. I can only think they looked at their target market. realized a set of clubs wouldn't go in and panicked. I wonder what proportion of cars actually had it specified new. Certainly, the majority of cars on the road today seem to have this, in the same way many cars have Webastos, presumably as the desirable and easy to fit parts are reused.
Oddly although the boot is small because it opens so wide and very low, it's incredibly practical. Far easier for shopping than my modern VW and because the recycling bin can go in upright, it doesn't leak not-so delicately scented "bin juice" into the car. I also transported 20 packets of tiles in mine putting the car near the bump stops. Doesn't handling get "interesting" with a lot of weight at the rear?
It's an interesting experience driving a well designed motor from the past and understanding why cars have developed the way they have but often design compromise comes with a cost. Certainly you realize what an utterly terrible ride most new cars have in exchange for quite incredible cornering (really, your new hatchback will out-corner a supercar from 30 years ago - great but is it necessary?).
Thanks for your views. I recall when I was around 7 a visitor called to our house and I was stunned by his gleaming new red Rover P6 and I wanted one ever since. The coolest thing for me was the lovely Rover badge in the center of the bootlid even though I had no idea why they put it there it looked so cool - still think its one of the coolest features on my 72 P6 today
I might try the wheel on the bootlid for a while - it might look ungainly but its really cool at the same time. Would not leave it there on a permanent basis though.
I might try the wheel on the bootlid for a while - it might look ungainly but its really cool at the same time. Would not leave it there on a permanent basis though.
ButterFingers
Active Member
how about fitting a run flat spare or one of those temporary spares , most old cars never go over 50 mph anyway..2 could be fitted on the boot lid ?
Peter
Peter
I agree, the badge in place is supremely elegant. But a lot of the joy is the design features and materials in the P6 which simply aren't the same on any other car. Something as trivial as a rotating map reading light. Why wouldn't you want one? It would be interesting to learn more about all the ideas buzzing around at Rover at the time. What didn't make it.
cobraboy
Well-Known Member
Spare on top can only be add to the pendulum effect on cornering.
I bought an inflator and goo kit and removed the spare, jack, and a tool roll, weighed it all and found I saved a whopping 34 kgs. That was all sitting behind the rear axle. It made a massive difference to how the car handles.
I bought an inflator and goo kit and removed the spare, jack, and a tool roll, weighed it all and found I saved a whopping 34 kgs. That was all sitting behind the rear axle. It made a massive difference to how the car handles.
ghce
Well-Known Member
I can well imagine with the softer springing of the P6 the dynamic affects would be much dampened down without the pendulum effect of the extra weight out back, never been a great fan of too much " junk in the trunk
"Graeme
Gargo
Active Member
If you like the look of a spare wheel on the boot lid, do it.
However:
To move weight from low in the boot to high on the boot lid is the about the worse thing you could do to upset the handling of a car. I'd say if you don't notice the difference to the dynamics of your car, or don't care about this change, you don't need uprated springs and anti-roll bars etc.
A major part of modifying a car to improve its dynamic handling, is to lower the CG and reduce weight fore and aft of the axles. This is what Cobraboy has done by removing the weight behind the rear axle. The dynamics of a car is very dependent on the height of the CG at the rear and front, together with rear suspension geometry different roll centre heights, front to rear. These roll centre heights will be designed to work with the CG heights, to try and produce a car that handles predictably.
The roll centre height of the rear suspension on the P6 is somewhere around the height of the rear axle diff, approx the same height of the spare wheel lying flat on the boot floor. Therefore removing the spare will should not reduce roll very much, but as Cobraboy states reduces the weight behind the axle and makes the car quicker to turn and will make it quicker to stop turning if it has started to oversteer. (quicker handling). Rising the wheel to the boot lid, will make the car roll more. With the car trying to roll more at the rear, than it was. (It's trying to fall over more at the rear than the front) This is just bad. It hurts my head just thinking about this. Its why I don't like to drive those modern 4x4s.
For me the best place for the spare wheel is strapped behind the passengers seat. That way I nip around the 4x4 at roundabouts.
Don't get me wrong here, if you like the look, go for it, it's not for me. I'm from the sporting saloon side of the fence..... I seem to have strayed, I'll go back over to my side. I'm blaming Cobraboy for this, he brought me here. Sorry.....
Gav.
However:
To move weight from low in the boot to high on the boot lid is the about the worse thing you could do to upset the handling of a car. I'd say if you don't notice the difference to the dynamics of your car, or don't care about this change, you don't need uprated springs and anti-roll bars etc.
A major part of modifying a car to improve its dynamic handling, is to lower the CG and reduce weight fore and aft of the axles. This is what Cobraboy has done by removing the weight behind the rear axle. The dynamics of a car is very dependent on the height of the CG at the rear and front, together with rear suspension geometry different roll centre heights, front to rear. These roll centre heights will be designed to work with the CG heights, to try and produce a car that handles predictably.
The roll centre height of the rear suspension on the P6 is somewhere around the height of the rear axle diff, approx the same height of the spare wheel lying flat on the boot floor. Therefore removing the spare will should not reduce roll very much, but as Cobraboy states reduces the weight behind the axle and makes the car quicker to turn and will make it quicker to stop turning if it has started to oversteer. (quicker handling). Rising the wheel to the boot lid, will make the car roll more. With the car trying to roll more at the rear, than it was. (It's trying to fall over more at the rear than the front) This is just bad. It hurts my head just thinking about this. Its why I don't like to drive those modern 4x4s.
For me the best place for the spare wheel is strapped behind the passengers seat. That way I nip around the 4x4 at roundabouts.
Don't get me wrong here, if you like the look, go for it, it's not for me. I'm from the sporting saloon side of the fence..... I seem to have strayed, I'll go back over to my side. I'm blaming Cobraboy for this, he brought me here. Sorry.....
Gav.