Rockers and rocker shafts

mtb_tuli

mtb_tuli

Active Member
it´s me again...
Today took off one of the rockers from the shaft and it did not look good o_O (the rocker...).
Ok, have to dismantle the shaft assembly completely, but due to the law of statistics, I expect more.
Prices of rockers and shafts are really in a huge range offered, oh oh.
Actually on ibäh "aplandrover" offers a full set of rockers (steel) and shafts for around GBP 70,00 which is really cheap. Next sets start from around 120,00.
Has anyone experienced them ?
 
The cheap ones are causing issues all over the place if you have a Google. Cheapest OK ones are federal mogul steel ones from the conversations I've had.
 
I've not heard anything positive about any non-genuine rockers on the market. I stress this is not through personal experience but everything I've read. Many, if not most engine components, camshafts, timing gear can (with careful shopping) be better than original but this apparently is a weak area. I'd love as much as you to learn differently....
 
I have a set of Yella Terra roller rockers on my car. they work very well and haven't been treated kindly. the have both roller tips and roller shaft bearings. Only catch is they don't make them anymore unless you supply the special shaft steel! they do a different version which involves ending your heads to them and they mill them to take a special plate to which the rockers attach. Reason they do this is the standard shafts leave the end rocker overhung and the shafts bend and flex as a result. this isn't an issue for road use though.
 
What sort of RPM are those rockers good for Mike? It was always my understanding that the rockers and pushrods were the limiting factor on the RV8.
 
I have used steel rockers on a few cars and havent had any issues though the cars all did low mileages.

Colin
 
Thanks guys. I have the "How to Power Tune RV8" book from Des Hammill. Here are also solutions for the rockers described, but they are more or less for racing purpose (as the Yella Terra rockers normally are). JE Development has adjustable rockers (and end pieces to avoid flex of the shafts) and also adujstable rockers based on Volvo rockers, which were used in the 80s on group1 cars.
Especially the Volvo rockers are filling some forums, but none found if the fit on the standard shafts and finally what exactly Volvo type it is, so the ratio fits and you find the appropriate rod for it.
Rockdemon and Des Hammill say, the steel rockers from Federal Mogul are good, but the dealers won´t tell you the manufacturer of the their stuff (normally...). It´s also interesting, that some parts suppliers do not offer rockers and shafts, but all other components around it. So, it sounds really like a weak area.
Think, I will try the offer from "Aplandrover" and see what happens. But I first want to know, why the rocker, which I took off first, looked so badly. The motor has original 139 tkm and was well serviced, so I think there´s a problem with oil supply here. Will order now the oilpump uprate kit from Real Steel, hope it will help.
What I learned from all the reading and surfing, an adjustable rocker would make life much more easier, so each valve set could be adjusted individually and easy.
Maybe somebody here knows more about the Volvo rocker.
Could this be an issue for the Rover P6 Club ? Looking for a manufacturer and have full sets of steel (adjustable) rockers with shafts for normal road use for a competitive club price ?
 
Peter, My car is an auto so I've never pushed it much beyond 5000 but they are designed for use in formula 5000 and other racing classes so I'd expect at least 8,000 out of them but you'd probably break something else first, like the distributor skew gears, the timing chain etc etc. note that you can get roller bearing rockers, roller tipped rockers and ones like the yella terra which have both needle roller bearings and roller tips. the bearings reduce the valve train load while the tips prevent the valves being pushed sideways in the guides and wearing them. Mine are adjustable but I'm using fast leakdown hydraulic lifters and have all the adjusters set to the same height. They were actually significantly cheaper than buying standard replacement sets from Leyland at the time...
 
mtb_tuli said:
Thanks guys. I have the "How to Power Tune RV8" book from Des Hammill. Here are also solutions for the rockers described, but they are more or less for racing purpose (as the Yella Terra rockers normally are). JE Development has adjustable rockers (and end pieces to avoid flex of the shafts) and also adujstable rockers based on Volvo rockers, which were used in the 80s on group1 cars.
Especially the Volvo rockers are filling some forums, but none found if the fit on the standard shafts and finally what exactly Volvo type it is, so the ratio fits and you find the appropriate rod for it.
Rockdemon and Des Hammill say, the steel rockers from Federal Mogul are good, but the dealers won´t tell you the manufacturer of the their stuff (normally...). It´s also interesting, that some parts suppliers do not offer rockers and shafts, but all other components around it. So, it sounds really like a weak area.
Think, I will try the offer from "Aplandrover" and see what happens. But I first want to know, why the rocker, which I took off first, looked so badly. The motor has original 139 tkm and was well serviced, so I think there´s a problem with oil supply here. Will order now the oilpump uprate kit from Real Steel, hope it will help.
What I learned from all the reading and surfing, an adjustable rocker would make life much more easier, so each valve set could be adjusted individually and easy.
Maybe somebody here knows more about the Volvo rocker.
Could this be an issue for the Rover P6 Club ? Looking for a manufacturer and have full sets of steel (adjustable) rockers with shafts for normal road use for a competitive club price ?
Click to expand...

v8tuner has the federal mogul ones. He says landrover are best followed by yellow terra when i spoke to him. He said the very cheap ones were a complete gamble, but he would sell them on that understanding. The federal mogul ones he said aren't as good as OEM but are generally OK. I have some on order with him.

Rich
 
Thanks a lot for this service !
Just looked on his side, I did not found them before....
If it´s the set for 121 GBP, it would be an attractive package.
Have sent him an mail with the order right now.
 
Believe it or not, I did not realize this yet. Hey, that´s perfect. V8 Tuner also offers aluminium rockers, they are also from Federal Mogul. I asked him, because it was not clear to me, why he offers aluminium and steel aftermarket ones. It seems, that 23899 people before asked him questions about RV8 rockers...
I ordered the steel ones, so if they wear off, I will hear it earlier than with the soft aluminium particles :D
 
Things get slow at the moment, but could take apart the rocker assembly from one side. As described in the literature, the upper side of the shafts good, the underside at each rocker very bad, as the rockers are. Hmh, the engine has 139 tkm. Cam was worn, wheel was ok, chain was stretched. Did order everything, but not the pedestals. Taking off the pedestals is not easy, as the holes in the pedestals are worn and sharp. Let´s see, if I can polish the pedestal surface. The shafts were mounted the correct way, but this kind of wearing looks like an oil problem. Did ord er also the oil pump upgrade kit, but I think, I have to check a little bit more. Will take off the heads (have some SD1 heads bought some time ago), sump and then check also the crank bearings.
Is there a certain crank bearing which I should check first (as an indicator) ?
Then I have seen, that the rockers have two different part numbers. Oil holes are lh / rh, but the shaft hole, I think, is centred. What´s the purpose for this ?
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The shafts don't look that bad, have seen some very badly worn shafts on engines that were quiet when running.
The older engines had left and right hand cranked rockers for inlet/exhaust valves.
Later rockers were straight with large offset oblong tips for valve contact.
The slight wear on oil pump cover is quite the norm and perfectly re usable.
I would check main bearings first especially the rear,if copper colour they are worn,if no scoring to crank new shells are normally all that is needed/check the backing of old shell to see if they are standard size or marked -10/20 undersized indicating crank has been reground.
I have only ever had to have 1 crank grind on my first P6 when the oil light would go off at 2000 RPM with severe knocking!
You can still get the wear your seeing on SD1 engines which already have a higher volume pump,mainly caused by cheap oil/ lack of oil changes.
Clive.
 
Thanks Clive. Let´s see, what the bearings will look like.
The rockers used are straight, but with the oil hole either lh or rh. Let´s see, what the new Rockers look like.
The last 8 years the car wasn´t on the road very often, but the owner before kept every bill for the car.
Here the car was in service regularly at a Jaguar dealer and they always charged him for 6,5 ltrs of oil :D
 
FWIW I built my 4.6 with Yella Terra rockers, I was a bit concerned about the quality of the various aftermarket ones and at the time a set of YT's (YT6000 with bronze bushes from v8tuner to fit original shafts) was actually cheaper than a set of genuine LandRover ones! But...
- I had to spend a lot of time trying to get the 4 to fit on the outer ends of the rocker shafts because they're thicker than the originals and with the standard spring washer/plain washer set up were very very stiff. Fixed it by not using the spring washers and using a selection of thin shim washers instead. (I also ended up making solid spacers to replace the springs between the others but you probably don't really need to)
- You may need to raise the rocker covers because the YT's are bulkier - you can buy 10mm (?) spacers but I used rubber gaskets glued together instead and no oil leaks so far. I wanted to keep the original covers, later 'square' ones are taller inside so might just fit straight on?
- The splash plates held down by the bolts through the rocker pedestals fouled the rockers (Mine did, I don't know if the plates are all the same design though). I left them out and no oil problems so far.
- I understand that with the same strength valve springs, an engine with roller rockers may not rev so high because they're heavier than the standard alloy rockers but this wasn't a concern for me as I built the engine for torque not revs.
 
That´s very interesting. V8tuner stated clearly, that the standard LR rocker has the best quality on behalf of the solid rockers, but with its latest price a swap with Yella Terra is the logic way, beside the fact, that a roller rocker is the far better way (roller rocker adjustable...). I did not want to spend the money now, as I do not know, if I will stay with this engine or will invest in some more cui....
On my understanding the original rockers are the limiting factor for higher revs, so with the standard valve springs your engine should be able to rev that higher until the standard valve springs limit it. So, with your YTRs you have the perfect base for everything you like.

Took off the heads now at my engine. So far, everything looks ok. Cannot interprete the colour of the exhaust valves fully at the moment, it´s my first car with carbs since many years.
What I do not understand, the heads have each 2 oil channels, but the cylinder block does have only one o_O ??
All head studs were mounted with copper grease, so it´s not the first time, they came off. All studs required a long lever to loose them, but the lower (outer) ones were extremely tight.

Will install SD1 heads, so I will not check the contact surface of the old heads base_rh_afterliftoff1.JPG base_rh_cleaned1.JPG head_rh1.JPG View attachment 9563 head_lh4.JPG at the moment.
I will give away the SD1 heads for skimming. It´s a 9,25:1 engine. Does anyone know, how much you have to skimm off for 0,1 CR ratio ?
 

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I've got the steel rockers on sleipnir now, but they're definitely more noisy than the old ones. So yellow terra would seem to be the cheapest option. I'm wondering if i'm better putting the old rockers onto new shafts.
 
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