replacement cylinder heads

life on mars

life on mars

Member
Hi can any body give me some help with the following rover cylinder heads pt no HRC 2210 FOLLOW BY 10E704 or 11E704.
I wish to fit them on a 1974 std 3500 auto. sorry but i do not have any more info on these heads. IE WILL THAY FIT WHAT GASKITS CAM AND PLUGS DO I USE. I believe MY Compression RATIO IS 9.75 I wish to run on unleaded petrol, I have a pair of SD1 heads from a 1977 v8 but i do not think they are up to the job for unleaded fuel. with so many head problems I Know how poor old Worzel Gummidge must had felt :?
 
Hi,

Try >this page< from the V8 forum. HRC 2210 are early-90's and are (probably) machined for use with composite gaskets. Are you staying with the P6 inlet manifold?

What makes you think the SD1 heads won't cut it on unleaded?
 
OK, I'm not 100% confident in what follows, so please crit and correct chaps.

Your SD1 heads are fine for unleaded. They will give significantly better flow performance than the P6 heads so will tend to improve top end power. You can use either gasket type. If you use standard tim gaskets then you will retain your 9.75 compression. If you use composite gaskets the compression will be reduced to about 9.25, reducing power and economy. Either way, the four outer small head studs can be retained, but should be torqued to 20lb/ft only (despite what the manual says!).

The 2210 heads are effectively early EFi heads. They are very marginally better flow wise than the SD1 heads - not enough to be of concern. If the outer four stud holes are plugged they are definitely late heads and will need composite gaskets to retain any sort of compression ratio. If the stud holes are open, then you need to work out what size combustion chambers they have. They could still have 29cc chambers as per the plugged type, but they might also be larger with 36cc chambers. If the latter then you'd be better off using a tin gasket in order to retain your engines compression ratio. If smaller you must use composite gaskets to avoid raising your compression ratio. If you are using the outer four studs, again 20lb/ft is required. If the heads are plugged then simply omit them altogether.

Faced with the above, I'd use the SD1 heads unless there is something obviosly wrong with their condition. Personally I'd use tin gaskets to keep the compression up - 9.75 should be fine without additives, so reducing to 9.25 merely loses efficiency and also power. Unless you do very high mileages, the reliability of the tin gaskets ought to be adequate for typical classic use.

Chris
 
life on mars wrote,...
I wish to fit them on a 1974 std 3500 auto. sorry but i do not have any more info on these heads. IE WILL THAY FIT WHAT GASKITS CAM AND PLUGS DO I USE. I believe MY Compression RATIO IS 9.75
Click to expand...

The change over in compression ratio that occured during 1974 saw the P6B engines drop from 10.5 : 1 to 9.25 : 1. The compression ratio is stamped on the block adjacent to the dip stick. Unless the pistons in your engine have been changed for Rover Vitesse items or your engine is from a Rover Vitesse, the comp will be 9.25 : 1.

The cylinder heads that you mention,...HRC 2210 are designed to run with unleaded fuel, no additive is required. They are 14 bolt heads with 36cc combustion chambers, the same as all SD1 heads including those fitted to the Vitesse. These heads are designed to run with tin gaskets and doing so will keep the lifter preload within factory spec. If you fit composite gaskets then the compression ratio will drop by approx 0.6 and the lifter pre load will go out of spec.

As Chris pointed out, torque all bolts as per spec but reduce the torque to 20lbs/ft on the outer 4 bolts per head only.

Ron.
 
HI many thanks for all the input, My main concern with the SD1 heads was the valve seats, I was under the impression that if they had the look of cast iron dark grey { I can not remember the name of the metal, IT began with a m :?: } SD1 HEADS that have got a copper coloured valve seat are the ones to use with unleaded petrol :? I can confirm that my engine is 9.25 compression ratio. What do i do for the best :?: SD1 WITH TIN /OR composite gaskets, OR THE HRC 2210 HEADS WITH TIN/OR COMPOSITE GASKETS :? ON a more serious note the main reason i am changing my heads over is I have oil leaking from both sides of the engine at the rear where the last two spark plugs are. I can not see any sign of water in the oil but I can see bubbles in the expansion tank when i rev the engine up also the water level empties out and only seems to return when the engine gets hot despite me topping it up when the engine is cold :!: Is it game over for this engine :?: :(
 
For my money I'd use the SD1 heads with tin gaskets. If you use SD1 heads and composite gaskets the compression ratio will drop to an unacceptable degree. I'd leave the 2210 heads alone on the grounds that you may have trouble figuring out what size combustion chambers they have and therefore whether to use tin or composite gaskets.

Chris
 
chrisyork wrote,...
I'd leave the 2210 heads alone on the grounds that you may have trouble figuring out what size combustion chambers they have and therefore whether to use tin or composite gaskets.
Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

The HRC 2210 are 14 bolt heads, therefore they left the factory with nominal 36cc combustion chambers, the same as all SD1 heads. ALL 14 bolt heads should be installed with tin gaskets so as to maintain the compression ratio.

Hello LOM,

You can have the coolant in your engine tested for exhaust gases which will confirm a head gasket problem if you wish. Otherwise the choice is yours, changing the heads is no major problem.

Ron.
 
changing the heads is no major problem.
Click to expand...

About 5 hours for me to change the head gaskets on PAE a few months back... (And I'm certainly no expert!) Main thing is to be careful you dont strip anything and be clear about which torque settings apply to which bolts.

Rich.
 
In regards to not stripping anything - you want 6 sided imperial sockets and a decent breaker bar. I've made the mistake before of trying this without the right tools and it didnt end well! :)

Rich.
 
Just to throw things it the air :idea: how about a pair of HRH 2479 heads on a 9.25 compression ratio engine 1996 year of manufacture no idea what compression ratio or size of engine :roll: me also thinks SD1 WITH tin gaskets is the way forward, but the unleaded petrol bit is still a bit of a worry. PS why the leaking oil from the head gaskets
 
sd1 heads are fine on unleaded. P6 ones are probably fine too... although that areas more grey....

Oil leaking from bottom of your heads implies a head gasket that's blown outwards for some reason. Not sure why that'd be... Do you have a picture you can squiggle an arrow onto to show us where the oil is leaking from?

Rich
 
HRC 2479 were the final version of the Rover V8 cylinder head, being fitted into most noticably the 4.0 and 4.6 litre Range Rovers. These heads left the factory having been machined down so the combustion chambers are 28cc and as such are designed to be used with composite head gaskets. They are easy to spot immediately as they are the only factory heads with such chambers and they only have 10 bolt retention.
Using composite head gaskets with these heads will maintain the same compression ratio.

They are however not a straight fit as the bolt holes at each end of the head are different to P6 and SD1 heads. At the very least the downshift cable attachement bracket and the alternator mounting bracket will need one of their bolt holes enlarged and suitable bolts obtained to attach them.

If you already have access to SD1 heads with the unleaded friendly copper/bronze valve seats, then use those heads as fitment is a direct swap. Copper/bronze valve seats were fitted to all Rover V8 cylinder heads from circa 1982 onwards until the end of manufacture.

If there is oil leaking from between the cylinder head and the block, then the gasket is not sealing as it should. The oil feed is at the front of the engine from block to head, but if you have oil leaking from further back, then that could be down to oil flowing down the valve guides or oil passing from the lifter gallery beneath the head and out. Either way, it should not be there.

Ron.
 
Hi Ron, if you read the link at the start of the article you'll see the 2210 heads come in three versions, normal 36cc, 28cc and 28cc 10 stud (with the original extra four holes plugged). Hence my advice to stick to the SD1 heads.

As an aside, with standard P6 heads on a 10.5 engine a composite gasket is a valid solution to get the compression down a tad - so your rule of tin gaskets with all 14 stud heads isn't quite universal.

Life on Mars - as regards a 2479 head, I wouldn't go there unless you feel confident about coping with the minor bits of re-engineering required.

This unleaded business is way overdone on our engines. If I was having a head overhauled, I'd expect to update to best modern practice and therefore use stellite valve seats, but otherwise I wouldn't bother at all. After all, what is the worst that can happen? Burn a valve and seat? Well that is a routine hazard with the 4 pot whether on original or modern seats, and on the V8 you'll pobably just whack another 2nd hand head on! It's a very long time indeed since I heard of a V8 burning a valve out, there are a number of other routine defects that always get there first!

Chris
 
chrisyork wrote,...
Hi Ron, if you read the link at the start of the article you'll see the 2210 heads come in three versions, normal 36cc, 28cc and 28cc 10 stud (with the original extra four holes plugged). Hence my advice to stick to the SD1 heads.
Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

Yes I have just noticed that. As far as I am aware that is not completely correct with regards the HRC 2210 heads. I am pretty sure that they all left the factory with 36cc chambers and 14 bolt holes.

Good advice though to stick with SD1 heads..!!

Ron.

P.S : Had a look on Rimmer Bros web site, they list all heads as pre and post 95. All pre have 34-36cc combustion chambers with three rows of head bolts, post 95 have 2 rows with 28cc chambers.
 
Hi Ron, as i understand it, the 2210 heads that are in question are those produced at the time of the currency of the 4.2 engine in the Range Rover LSE. All heads used on that engine are 28cc and they change from 14 stud to 10 stud part way through 4.2 production - all using the 2210 casting. Knowing what we do about Rover's propensity to use whatever came to hand to build up engines (and cars), I would expect these variants migrated beyond the 4.2 into other production! I also agree there may well not be too many around.

I must say I rather like the idea of the 4.2 capacity. The stroke to bore ratio seems just right to me.

Chris
 
:cry: OK so i got my head around the cylinder heads SD1 +TIN GASKETS, Many thanks for everybody's input, and helpful knowledge :cry: :cry: In my plea for help I mention that I had oil leaking from the heads. I have had a compression test done and also some airline screw in thing that helps to pinpoint potential problems. With the rocker covers off AND with valves in the closed position, the results are not good! Where the oil is leaking the piston compression is 20 psi while all the other 7 cylinders range from 125 to 80psi the consensus being that presure is so low on the back pistons that oil is being thrown out of the head gasket and the dip stick filler tube :cry: :cry: :cry: garage suggest new engine any further help greatly appreciated :cry: :?: GREAT shame as the engine sounds as sweet as a nut :roll:
 
Once you get to the stage of paying a garage to sort problems of that sort out things can get expensive, and quickly, which is probably why they've told you it needs a new engine. If you can sort it yourself though, it could be nothing more than a set of rings. As always with things like this, I'd always want it in bits so I knew exactly what the score was before I'd finally call time on it.
 
If it's blowing oil out past the head gasket at that cylinder, then it could just be the head gasket that has failed, and the pressure is also finding it's way into the crackcase.

If it was just blowing out of the dipstick then I'd suspect the rings, but if the headgasket has failed that badly then anything could be happening.

Your best bet is to pull that head off and have a look.
 
Don't Panic!

You'd expect all rings on all cylinders to wear at roughly equal rates. So if one cylinder has achieved zero compression and the others are fine it is unlikely to be simple ring wear. So for it to be piston related you's be looking at a broken ring or three on the affected cylinder. I'd have thought you would have heard that, whereas you say the engine is sweet and quiet.

By contrast, if the engine has blown the head gasket on that cylinder sufficiently to make a passage from cylinder to the outside world, then it would make sense for there also to be a blow into the pushrod tube area. Once that is the case, then all bets are off on where oil and pressure finishes up.

How's that for a justification for you having a simple head gasket failure! Not guaranteed to be correct, but a sufficiently good chance for it to be well worth you pulling that paticular head! If, when you do that, there is no scoring to the bores, then the chances of that being the only defect rise above 90%!

Only one note of caution. You should be sure and sort out the engine breather system when the engine goes back together. You will need to fit replacement flame traps (the gry metal mushrooms in the breather hoses to the carbs) and a new filter in the hose that connects to the bottom of the air filter canister.

There, that should have cheered you up!

Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top