Refitting Front Springs

#1
Today I was looking up under the right front wing of my P6 (as we do;-) and noticed that the top front of the spring is actually contacting the bulge in the sheet metal just above it. In fact there is some evidence of scraping and this may be the source of the thumping and bumping noises I hear when driving over a bump. Then I looked at the left front and see the same situation.

Last year I removed/refitted the original springs in order to replace the rubber bits. I didn't notice at the time that the cross sectional drawing on page H2 of the service manual shows the spring support cup and the rubber cushion just behind it to be non-symmetrical. I really don't recall seeing this non-symmetry in the actual part either. So I'm now wondering if I screwed this up, getting the orientation wrong and leading to a condition where the pivot link can push the front of the spring up. Or am I imagining things here and the cause is actually something else?

I do plan on removing these springs and fitting stiffer front springs in the near future but would like to determine the root cause of this problem so it doesn't carry over with the new springs.

Any thoughts, help, advice, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#2
Hi Tom,

Can't say that I have ever seen non symmetrical front spring cups and their corresponding bump stops. Certainly the ones that are on my Rover are symmetrical. There are three channels that form part of the cup, and these if when viewing either at a certain angle will give the impression that it is non symmertical. The diagram within the V8 workshop manual also displays them as being non symmetrical, but considering the location of the channels, that would be the explanation I suspect.

I have seen local Rovers where the top ball joint has come into repeated contact with the underside of the guard, leading to severe dents and in some cases complete holes. Soft springs in combination with tired shock absorbers being the root cause.

I can't say I have ever seen though what you are describing, where the actual spring is making contact with the underside of the guard.

Ron.
 
#3
SydneyRoverP6B said:
Hi Tom,

Can't say that I have ever seen non symmetrical front spring cups and their corresponding bump stops. Certainly the ones that are on my Rover are symmetrical. There are three channels that form part of the cup, and these if when viewing either at a certain angle will give the impression that it is non symmertical. The diagram within the V8 workshop manual also displays them as being non symmetrical, but considering the location of the channels, that would be the explanation I suspect.

I have seen local Rovers where the top ball joint has come into repeated contact with the underside of the guard, leading to severe dents and in some cases complete holes. Soft springs in combination with tired shock absorbers being the root cause.

I can't say I have ever seen though what you are describing, where the actual spring is making contact with the underside of the guard.

Ron.
Ron,
you may have hit the target, i.e. the cross sectional drawing is showing one of the three channels. I had forgotten about those channels so that must be the explanation. Given that the shocks are relatively new Konis but the springs are original, soft springs may very well be the root cause of the problem.

The contact is actually between the top of the cup and the underside of the fixed portion of the inner wing, right where the front of the bulge is. Probably the front, top portion of the spring coil is making contact as well. The thing is, there was no clearance problem before I replaced the pivot bushings and the rubber spring cushions. I did not replace the two hemi-spherical rubber covered top link ball ends, assessing the originals to be in good condition. So something has changed after I did this work. I would hate to go through the agony of changing out the springs then find there is still a problem.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Tom
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#4
302Rover wrote,...
there was no clearance problem before I replaced the pivot bushings
Tom,

When you replaced inner bushes for the top link, did you make sure that when the inner mounting bracket was pressed on over the inner bush, that the mounting face where it meets the base unit, was at 90 degrees to the mounting face for the anti-roll bar cap? This angle is very important as it will influence where the top link and ultimately the spring will sit when in the static position. It will also have a direct bearing on the longevity of the inner bush.

Ron.
 

chrisyork

Active Member
#5
Very important advice from Ron there.

I had another problem with my car which you will have yet to experience. When I had my new front springs made, the spring manufacturer evidently used a sub standard grade of spring steel. After a few hundred miles these springs then deformed into an arc (downwards in this case) giving the impression they were about to pop out of their mountings! That was an emergency spring change!

Chris
 
#6
SydneyRoverP6B said:
302Rover wrote,...
there was no clearance problem before I replaced the pivot bushings
Tom,

When you replaced inner bushes for the top link, did you make sure that when the inner mounting bracket was pressed on over the inner bush, that the mounting face where it meets the base unit, was at 90 degrees to the mounting face for the anti-roll bar cap? This angle is very important as it will influence where the top link and ultimately the spring will sit when in the static position. It will also have a direct bearing on the longevity of the inner bush.

Ron.
Ron,
I seem to recall eye-balling that angle but don't recall ever measuring it with a square. Refresh my memory; is the inner bush a press fit over the top link pivot as well as into the mounting bracket? If so I can see how an incorrectly set up angle could lead to early bushing failure.

The only good bit of news so far is that I do plan on replacing the springs with stiffer V8 springs so at that time will ensure that I get it right. Meanwhile the car is not on the road due to extensive work on all the belt driven stuff on the front of the motor.

Thanks again for your insight and help, it is invaluable.

Cheers,
Tom
 

SydneyRoverP6B

Well-Known Member
Staff member
#7
302Rover wrote,...
Refresh my memory; is the inner bush a press fit over the top link pivot as well as into the mounting bracket?
Hi Tom,

It is indeed. All rotational movement is entirely through the deflection of the rubber within the bush. That is why in terms of longevity, the angle between the two is so important.

Ron.
 
#8
SydneyRoverP6B said:
302Rover wrote,...
Refresh my memory; is the inner bush a press fit over the top link pivot as well as into the mounting bracket?
Hi Tom,

It is indeed. All rotational movement is entirely through the deflection of the rubber within the bush. That is why in terms of longevity, the angle between the two is so important.

Ron.
Thanks again, Ron. As I recall I oriented the mounting bracket as best I could by eye and when the assembly was put up against the firewall I don't recall any mismatch. The bolts seemed to go in properly. But at this point I still need to correct the spring interference problem so will fit new springs. And you can be sure the next time I do this job I will pay very strict attention to the proper bracket angle 8)

Cheers,
Tom
 
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