Possible Ringer on Ebay?

C

chrisyork

Active Member
This apparently rather nice (apart from the water in front footwell!) V8 has just appeared on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rover-p6-3500-s-/110996041176?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item19d7e12dd8

BUT, the transmission tunnel appears to be a manual (narrow) one and it has an engine with an ACR alternator (outboard of the cam cover) and HIF6 carbs along with a manual transmission. That means engine and box are at least '73 and the body shell would be most unlikely to be '71 on a "J" plate.

So it could be that the seller is unwittingly trying to move a ringer on?

Any other views?

Chris
 
I suppose there's no easy way of telling what's been done to a car over the course of 40 years or more without looking at the chassis number and other generally non-changeable details, such as wiring loom configurations and colours etc. Nevertheless, there's still something fishy looking about that car.

It's clear that those panels and that engine don't go together. So using common sense and judgement, I think it comes down to an argument of "what's easier to swap?"
  • The engine & transmission? Well the alternator could be the second or third in the car's lifetime (my car has an ACR when an AC was originally fitted), the manifold and carbs less likely but probably a worthwhile upgrade. But the gear lever gives the transmission away as post-73 unless changed (unlikely). So the whole engine/gearbox assembly has most likely been transplanted from a later car
  • The trim? Apart from the bonnet and grille, it has exclusively S2 trim, and the colour looks Scarab blue to me (post 72). Okay, body panels can be changed, but seats, dash and wood trim too? And a vinyl roof can't be easy. I think the trans tunnel is the clincher. That is definitely a manual tunnel.

But on the other hand, it could be both of the above. Ie, a genuine super-early 3500S base unit could have been saved for tax reasons by having a later Scarab S merged into it (seats, panels and engine/g'box) with a S1 bonnet and grille for garnish.

Buyers guides always urge caution when buying off ebay, and this is an excellent example of why reading up about the car and consulting the advice of club specialists and enthusiasts is so invaluable when buying something as complex as a P6. After all, buyers guides will simply state: "3500S - 1971-77, genuine cars have narrower transmission tunnel." The above ticks all those boxes.

Michael
 
Hi Brenten

Whilst there may just have been a couple of J reg S2 3500S, I'm not sure I've ever heard of one earlier than K reg. A J reg one is in factory development / pilot build territory. '72 and K reg is much more common but even then unusual.

And don't forget that we in the UK have a motive to "ring" a P6 so that we can have it in road tax free status!

Chris
 
The giveaway for me is the lack of fuse box on the inner wing by the powersteering reservoir, so it's definitely an 'S' base unit.
 
Does an S2 3500 Auto still have them? I thought all 'proper' series 2's had the fantastic exploding ones in the glove box? Are you sure it's not just because your car is an early S2 that it still has some 'and a half' quirks to it?
Michael
 
redrover said:
Does an S2 3500 Auto still have them? I thought all 'proper' series 2's had the fantastic exploding ones in the glove box? Are you sure it's not just because your car is an early S2 that it still has some 'and a half' quirks to it?
Michael
Click to expand...

I don't think the full 'proper' series 2 spec changes came on line until late '71 which would have been a K plate.
 
Nope. Early S2 3500 Auto's (suffix A only) have the 11AC alternator and engine bay fuse box, whilst all 3500S have the ACR alternator and behind the shin bin fuse box.

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
whilst all 3500S have the ACR alternator.

Chris
Click to expand...

Not true. Early 3500S had the 11AC, my original "K" plate had one and my current "L" plater has one as well.
 
I just wrote to the seller to enquire about some of the points that been discussed here. This is his answer:

cant tell you to much bought from an deceased estate owner had run the car for 17 years it is 4 speed manual box
Click to expand...

Will likely stay a mystery. :?
 
chrisyork said:
And don't forget that we in the UK have a motive to "ring" a P6 so that we can have it in road tax free status!

Chris
Click to expand...
It's a bit extreme to graft a Series 1 front end on to it when a S2 can legitimately wear a J plate. I think that it's quite normal on the cusp of a model change for the last production of the old version to incorporate some of the features of the new.
 
Might send a message to go and view it! Only 30 mins away from me but not got much time as back to work so might not work out.
 
1396midget said:
when did they change over from one letter per year to 2 letters per year?
Click to expand...

1967.

"D" was 1966, "E" was 01/01/67 to 31/07/67, and "F" was 01/08/67 to 31/07/68 which is how it continued from then onwards.
 
DVLA shows date of first reg. 20-01-1970.
Must be a '69 build.
even to my (Rover) inexperience eye looks very dubious.

Is the bonnet a different shade?
 
i would say its a series 2 with the front end of a series 1 as if you look at the bonnet its a different colour to the rest also the early v8 had that lip on the front panel with the bonnet closes series 2 didnt have these whch this dont have also the fuse box aint in the engine bay as some 1 put its a 4 speed manual and the tunnel is to thin as well
 
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