P8

I have just read this thread from front to back and WOW...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is probabaly the silliest of silly questions but does anybody know what is going to happen to this car, it looks neglected... :evil:
 
theviking said:
I have just read this thread from front to back and WOW...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is probabaly the silliest of silly questions but does anybody know what is going to happen to this car, it looks neglected... :evil:
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Long term, I suspect, BMIHT have plans to restore it. I know that a concerted attempt to get the car out of Gaydon and restored privately, backed by some very well known and respected Roverheads, failed a couple of years ago. They wouldn't let it out.
 
As regards the appearance and detailing of this P8 prototype, you must remember that this is not an "off tools" prototype. It is the real McCoy hand built prototype - almost a working "Concept" car in todays language. Known as "Mandalay", in this condition these cars were equivalent to a late P6 Talago. Those Talagos looked rubbish compared to the production cars, no flares to pick out the wheelarches, a strange front end treatment etc etc. And battleship grey does the car no favours either.

In particular, at the front of the P8, the bonnet scoop is nowhere near production ready, and I have a strong suspicion that the "bumper", the deformable moulding that completely surrounds the grille area, is probably a hand carved solid. And it definitely looks much better on the styling bucks with the first appearance of the SD1 style skeletal Rover mascot setting off the centre of the grille.

Chris
 
I wonder if the car is still lying outside with broken windows - exposed to the elements? This would be a real shame. Especially if a 50 quid car cover would keep the worst of the weather out.
 
JVY said:
I wonder if the car is still lying outside with broken windows - exposed to the elements? This would be a real shame. Especially if a 50 quid car cover would keep the worst of the weather out.
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After some serious internet activity - and Keith Adams from AR Online in particular dealing with Heritage - it's back in the basement. They said apparently that P8 had only been outside for a few days and was back inside on the Monday.

Cheers
Nick
 
Thanks Nick - that does make me feel a lot happier :) .

After reading Chris's comments,
Known as "Mandalay",
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, I keep thinking of du Maurier's novel "Rebecca" and it's opening line, "Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again". At least it will be a happier dream now that Mandalay is tucked away in a safer place.
 
Well thank goodness it is safe for the time being... It really does need to be given a bit of spit and polish though as it comes from a time in Rover's history when they still had the balls to take on the big boys, it really is rather significant...!!!
 
Note that the P8/P9 write up is not completely accurate. P8 started development in '66 after Rover decided that the 3ltr six cylinder version of P6, known as P7, was a dead end. P8 and P10 were developed in parallel from '70, P8 to replace P5B and P6B and P10 to replace the 4 pot P6's and have a bash at the Granada company car market. Originally P8 was going to cover all those bases and have a 4 pot, albeit a spectacularely wonderful 4 pot, as its entry level model. As P8 gradually morphed into a larger car it was the BL board who instructed Rover to initiate P10.

Because P10 was aimed at the company car market, it was a much simpler car than P8. When it then morphed into SD1, it retained this simpler spec, hence the live axle in an SD1. Mechanically and bodyshell wise, SD1 was pretty well pure P10, but it had "gained" the Triumph six pots from the cancelled Triumph project and also an Austin Morris quality interior and other cost saving engineering.

Chris
 
chrisyork said:
Because P10 was aimed at the company car market, it was a much simpler car than P8. When it then morphed into SD1, it retained this simpler spec, hence the live axle in an SD1. Mechanically and bodyshell wise, SD1 was pretty well pure P10, but it had "gained" the Triumph six pots from the cancelled Triumph project and also an Austin Morris quality interior and other cost saving engineering.

Chris
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Hm. Very interesting...! I was under a slightly different impression from a few contemporary articles I've read with King/Bashford. I understood P10 to have started life with base unit construction - essentially a cut-down version of P8's. This would have greatly rationalised the production lines as well as maximising component crossover between P8/9/10. It is known that up to 1969 (the 'Talk at the Top' article with King/Bashford/Wilks/Stokes), deDion was confirmed as the rear support "in all future Rovers". I also know (but can't remember where I read it) that the mounting points for P8's "true" deDion (telescopic halfshafts) are in the same place as the axle mounts on P10-SD1. To my mind, this would demonstrate a far more impressive spec for P10 than eventually emerged as SD1. If the deDion suspension was a given at the laying down of spec, then the live axle must surely have been a substitution after the cancellation of P8, when production of deDion for one car only became less profitable than developing a simpler system on the same mounting points.
If base unit construction was also proposed, then surely the front suspension would have been derived from P8 also, or at the very least a more traditional British double-wishbone setup than the Fordist MacPherson system that arrived with SD1.

The clincher for me is the size of SD1's engine bay. Imagining for a moment that the twin-cam 16v 2.2 litre derivative of the P6 2000 engine had come to fruition, and that the same level of attention to detail and engineering perfection as P6 had gone into its execution, how could the engine possibly have been mounted? Canted or otherwise, the engine bay is FAR too wide, even for the V8. I was once told that the best was to mount a 4-cylinder engine for maximum NVH reduction is to 'hang' it from the joint of the cylinder block and head. That keeps the weight as low as possible and prevents most of the 'wobbles' from the bottom of the engine transmitting to the body. I just can't see how you'd achieve that in the pit that is the SD1's engine bay. Unless.... a base unit construction with broad inner wings and a pair of high-mounted inner chassis rails similar to P6 had once been there...??

It's understandable that these things would have been axed. Kitting out an executive fleet car with Mercedes-killer running gear is all fair and well when the technology is borrowed off the bigger brother, but once he'd been sent away to a convent, there's no financial sense in over-engineering the fleet car. Unitary construction was also undoubtedly cheaper. But SD1 just seems a little too tardis-like - there's too much empty space in it for it to have always been monocoque.

Michael
 
I'll have to dig the article out in a minute, but my recollection is that Spen was adamant that the torque tube axle in SD1 was in there from the inception, and the bit about P10 being a BL Board initiative to tap the company car market is definitely true. In fact Spen was particularely proud of that axle. In a way it's typical Rover - take a simple idea and transform it into something unnecessarily complex! It's just possible that P10 may have started life with double wishbones, I'll have to see if I can get any info on that; but the McPherson strut set up is not uniquely Ford, don't forget that the '63 Triumph 2000 had it too. So it could possibly have been an import from the cancelled Triumph project.

Chris
 
NickDunning said:
Look what Adrian Mitchell managed to come across hiding in the open, but fenced-off, security area at Gaydon yesterday. I've never seen her before. I managed to get back to my car and grab my camera and reel off a few photos before we were ushered off the premises.
6thOctober20123640x480.jpg

6thOctober201210640x480.jpg

6thOctober201212640x480.jpg

6thOctober201213640x480.jpg

6thOctober20126640x480.jpg
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Do we know if this is now safely stored again...?! I hope it tucked up somewhere so as not to fall victim to the elements...

Surely this has to be restored at some juncture...?!
 
She's back undercover in Heritage. They say they will be restoring her in the long term.

Would be fantastic if that was pre-2017 as we'd certainly want her for Rumblefest.
 
It's good to hear that this very special car will be getting 'the treatment' soon... It is a wonderful piece of Rover's history so it deserves to be restored to its former glory so we can all enjoy it...
 
rockdemon said:
pre-2017
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for the v8's 50th? Shouldn't that be 2018?

Rich
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1964 - first V8 installed into a P6 and road tested
1965 - contracts signed, and several dozen Buick V8s turn up at Rover
1966 - P5B and P6B prototypes on the road, and undergoing tests
1967 - P5B enters production
1968 - P6B enters production

So 2017 is the 50th anniversary of Rover V8 production.. :)
 
I have been given access to some Pressed Steel Fisher P8 factory drawings. They very clearly show how the body was shaped and how the panels fitted to the spaceframe, like on the P6. I haven't been able to get any drawings of the suspension, but there must be some out there somewhere.
It's interesting to note that under bonnet ventilation was taken seriously, those side vents on the front wing are real and feed right through spaces in the base unit.
As regards looks, I don't find it very 'Datsun like' , more like the NSU RO80 in it's overall wedge profile and boot shaping.
I am quite happy for someone to post these pictures here, properly. I'm not sure how, and I'm using my phone so it's hard to check. If someone could so that I'd be most grateful
https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=http://shawbits.co.uk/images/psfp8001.jpg&key=3aIefA2NbDx_GhhvHWrvjg&w=800&h=435
https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=http://www.shawbits.co.uk/images/p8psf.jpg&key=8VHuUjxDF-ioZnJaW6kveA&w=800&h=437
https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=http://shawbits.co.uk/images/psfp8004.jpg&key=RMPm-GUIK2nBCuzsTBSuSg&w=800&h=435
https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=http://shawbits.co.uk/images/psfp8005.jpg&key=cd2Zkt2tBfkjjsuOY9PsSA&w=800&h=435
https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=http://shawbits.co.uk/images/psfp8002.jpg&key=HJdmvMHo7TC5volMz7WriA&w=800&h=435
https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=http://shawbits.co.uk/images/psfp8003.jpg&key=Tt1PLQL5yzXuggfPYWE58w&w=800&h=435
 
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