P6 2000TC gearbox replacement

Wilfred Oldtimer

Active Member
Good morning,

As my manual gearbox is making some noise due to the lack of oil in the past, I’ve been thinking of replacing it in time, somewhere in the (near) future.

However, I heard that in order to swap this gearbox you will have to take out the complete engine. Could this be true??

This is obviously an unpleasant surprise..

Wilfred
 
I managed to get one out when I was a lot younger and fitter, but I can tell you that you can get it out without removing the engine.

I would take the fan off before tilting the motor back though.
 
Thanks, that’s a relief..

It’s true by the way, it’s difficult getting up in the morning after a day of hard working on your vehicle.
 
I had it on authority that it is possible to remove the gearbox with the engine still in situ, but I have not done it personally.
This is the process I was told:

You will need to remove the following:
  • Gear lever
  • Clutch hydraulic pipe or clutch slave cylinder
  • Reversing light switch wires (lucar connectors)
  • Gearbox support bracket (rod through snub rubber and supporting spring - all ordinary bolts accessible from underneath.
  • Prop shaft
  • Speedo cable (easier with engine tilted backwards - see below)
  • Starter motor (mix of lucar and screw connections - again, easier with engine tilted backwards, see below).
After that, unbolt the stay bar at the front of the engine (the vertical round bar that anchors the cylinder head to the front crossmember). That will allow the engine to tilt on the engine mounts - beware of the engine fan coming too close to the radiator. Provided you have somebody to support the gearbox end, you can swing the gearbox down a little to get better access to the bell housing bolts.
With the bolts undone, you can withdraw the gearbox from the rear. But you will need to support the engine at the front to prevent it falling forwards into the radiator. Reattach the front stay bar to secure it temporarily while you work on the gearbox.

I'm fairly sure that's everything, but again can't vouch for the process as I have only removed the gearbox complete with the engine.
Michael
 
I seem to remember that when you have removed the engine to bellhousing bolts, you have to spin the gearbox until the starter motor bulge is facing upwards to enable it to come out - although I may have made that up :)
 
I seem to remember that when you have removed the engine to bell housing bolts, you have to spin the gearbox until the starter motor bulge is facing upwards to enable it to come out - although I may have made that up :)
Now you say it, yes, I've heard that as well. And it makes sense as the starter motor bulge is very significant, and the tunnel narrows quite sharply.
 
Last time I did it, a lifetime ago, I was advised by people who had done it.....As well as the items noted above, we removed the engine mount bolts and replaced them with thinner, long screwdrivers. This makes the tipping back easier, and has less impact on the mount rubbers.
Before going this far - drop the propshaft, and check that the nut on the output shaft is tight - I have seen this come loose and cause internal noises that might have been fixed by tightening.
 
I have removed the gearbox in the past on its own, and with the engine. I would say that it really depends on where you are going to work, and what facilities you have available.
The first time i have rented an engine hoist, and pulled the gearbox along with the engine, at home, in my parking space, working alone. I can say that it was relatively easy, but i had to disconnect a few more things.

The second time i pulled the gearbox only, and i also did it alone, at home, in my parking space, with the car supported on stands. This meant that the working height was marginal, and i had to support the weight of the gearbox with my hands in order to pull it out, or align it and put it back in, while i was lying on my back. Mind you, the available space is marginal at best, and depending on the various tolerances of the base unit, it could be a little easier, or rather more difficult. If you feel that you are fit enough for this, go ahead. As others said before, you have to tilt the engine back as far as it will go (for your LHD car the limit will be the rear carb hitting the brake fluid reservoir), and as soon as you take off all of the bellhousing bolts, you will have to rotate the gearbox in order to have the starter motor hump at the top. As you are pulling it out, you will find that the bellhousing hits the transmission tunnel on the driver's side (for a LHD car). As the saying goes reffiting is the reverse of the removal procedure, with the added difficulty that you have to align the input shaft with the clutch, while trying to maneuvre the bellhousing past the edge of the tunnel, and of course not allowing the input shaft to take any weight. Good luck with that!
Of course if the car is over a pit or on a lift, and you have availble someone else to help, it will be significantly more easier.
 
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I have done it both ways on both my '68 2000TC and my '65 2000 SC. With the TC, I found that I had to remove the carbs in order to access the bell housing bolts. On both cars, the exhaust needs to be disconnected. The coolant hoses need to be removed (or at least the top one) and the heater hoses in order to get enough angle on the engine. Of course, that means that the coolant has to be drained. The starter motor has to be removed. In the end it starts to feel like there is not a lot of difference between what you remove to remove both he engine and gearbox together versus just the gearbox. As Demetris notes, working under the vehicle is not easy and getting the gearbox back into position requires strength and lots of patience. In recent years, I have always removed the engine and gearbox together. I find I can do that faster than trying to do the gearbox alone.
 
I’ve found the same as @DAK with my TC. My car is a LHD American model so has the steering box next to the carbs and two servos on the RHS inner wing. Did the gearbox only once and it was painful. Getting enough angle on the engine (I have the VW golf engine mounts which I think are stiffer than factory) plus aligning a box on your chest is taxing to say the least. Next time I had to get in there I just pulled both and had them out in three hours. Admittedly I’d had too much practice by then!
 
Thank you all for your tips and useful advices!

I need to figure out how I will solve this, I’m not going to do this all by myself I’m afraid. At least I need a ramp and I do not have one. Lying underneath a car with a jack or other devices is no option due to safety reasons. But that’s a personal thing.

Anyway, there is no rush and the car needs some other attention as well.
In a few weeks we will be heading to Hastings with the old Jaguar Series 3, that will be great fun, looking forward to it. Who knows again with the Rover at the end of this year, back to the roots !

Cheers,
Wilfred
 
I seem to remember that when you have removed the engine to bellhousing bolts, you have to spin the gearbox until the starter motor bulge is facing upwards to enable it to come out - although I may have made that up :)

Nah, it's all the truth, you haven't made it up at all.
 
Good evening,

it’s been a while, my gearbox has finally been fixed and is working as it should now. It took some effort and too much money I’m afraid, but you only live once and my car has started it’s fifth..

I’m not able to do this on my own and didn’t want it to take too long so I decided to bring the car to a local Rover specialist. At first they were quite optimistic and wanted to swap the gearbox with another one, but the donor didn’t seem to be reliable after doing some checks. So once the old gearbox was removed from the car they renewed all the bearings, sealings, gaskets etc. Also the coupling seemed to be worn out and has been replaced as well.
The gearstick mechanism was a real nightmare, they had to find a creative solution to fix this.

Finally, on my request, they adjusted the carburettors (I tried my very best but didn’t succeed very wel), and did an oil change on the differential.

So…..
The remaining thing now is my steering box, this I can do myself as I don’t need a ramp for it. At least I hope not

Also I need new tyres, what is an appropriate size for this car?
At this moment the car has got a 175R14 size, which seems to be a bit too small I think ?

To be continued and have a great evening,

Wilfred
 
Congratulations on your now-working car. The tyres you have are actually too big. They should be 165 R14. Pirelli Cinturato CA67s are favourite (as fitted to the cars when new) but expensive, Vredestein Sprint Classics are good and a bit cheaper. There are various more modern-looking tyres in that size, much cheaper and mostly Chinese, but the car won't feel as nice to drive on them and they don't look as good. It's worth going for the Cinturatos if you can. I've had them on all three of my P6s and they are lovely.
 
Also I need new tyres, what is an appropriate size for this car?
At this moment the car has got a 175R14 size, which seems to be a bit too small I think ?

Congratulations on getting the car roadworthy again.

In regard to tyre choice, you may wish to start a new thread as there is a bit of a debate here, and a lot seems to come down to personal preference. I'll summarise the factors at play.... the rest is at your discretion.

Your 2200 will have 14" x 5" wheels, which were originally fitted with 165 HR 14 (High speed Radial). In those days, low profile tyres didn't exist so they had a "full" aspect ratio of 80%. Today, this would be written as 165/80/14. Any tyre with a smaller middle number is a lower profile tyre that will affect the final gearing of the car (faster engine speed for lower road speed). In the UK, Longstone and Blockley produce 165 tyres with a full aspect ratio specifically for classics - Longstone reproduce Pirelli Cinturatos (at great expense) whereas Blockley have developed their own tyres with a period-style tread pattern. It is tricky to find other tyres of suitable aspect ratio in 165 width, so many owners have opted for 175 as a close alternative. These will fit on the 5" rim, but are slightly too wide and could lead to accelerated tyre-wall cracking and a "tuck under" effect in hard cornering owing to tyre wall bulging out from the narrow rim. Fitting 185s to 5" rims certainly has this effect, which I know from experience.

V8s were fitted with 14" x 5 ½" rims, which were fitted with 185 HR 14 tyres originally. It's easier to source suitable tyres for the V8 due to the more common width (Falken are well regarded), although many modern tyres in this size are designed for vans and give a harsher ride. If you wanted to 'upgrade' to V8 wheels, you would need to transpose the front hubs and rear top links from a V8 to give greater clearance for the wider wheel and tyre combination. They will foul on a 4-cylinder otherwise. However, your 2200 will have the Burman type steering box, which is an order of magnitude heavier to operate than the Adwest box in a 2000, so any gains in tyre choice afforded by V8 wheels may be negated by even greater heaviness to steering at low speeds.
On a humorous (or alarming) note, somebody on Facebook has just recently announced he has fitted 205 section tyres to his P6 steels. I wouldn't wish to be near him on a wet roundabout. Just because you *can* fit something doesn't mean you *should* !!
 
Thank you so much, once I’m back home I’m sure I will find the correct tyres for my P6 now.
I’m in the UK for a change, maybe it’s better to move here ;)
 
Despite the V8 being a more common size, I'd say it was more difficult to source this size in the correct HR rating. Several R options and utterly horrible van tyres. Then there's the prices... Michelin MVX anyone?

165Rs are available from Dunlop and even the original pattern Pirelli Cinturato as premium options an there are loads of brands I never heard of before...

I went with Continental Premium Contact 5 185/70 R14 88Hs. By far the best tyre I've ever experienced on a P6. A truly modern premium tyre that was (at the time 2 years ago) £55 each..... Incomparably better than the Vredestein sport classics they replaced. Yes they are smaller but with the ZF conversion, that's actually a plus...
 
Hi, I will go for a so called “A” brand anyway as we call it. In case of bad weather or an emergency stop or even both, tyres must be reliable. Continental might be interesting, I’ve got them in my other car as well. The funny thing is that there is much more choice in A brands when I choose one size bigger. The ones I have got now are actually ment for a car with a bigger double six engine whereas my car has a “smaller” six in line.


So, maybe I will switch from 175 to 185 on my P6.:)
 
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