OCC 469 - restoring & running a "sharkstooth" 2000

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
I took OCC out yesterday & it drove very well as usual. However, the rattle doesn't go away & before I attempt any fix, with a bit of help I managed to take a very short video in which you can hear the noise...

 

Tom W

Active Member
Have you ruled out gear-lever linkage rattle? Mine rattles, but can be made to stop by applying slight pressure to the gear-lever. It took me a while to find it was the gear-lever that was rattling. The other rattle I have, that I’ve only just worked outage source of, is the bonnet prop. I had an irritating rattle from under the bonnet, it sounded like something loose and metallic. Of course, open the bonnet to investigate and it goes away as the prop is in use. I hope replacing the grommet at the end of the bonnet prop should cure this one!
 

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
Thank-you all for your suggestions, which I've yet to try but will do before doing anything more serious.

If I have to go down the little end route, presumably I can do this with the engine in the car? I've already taken the engine & gearbox out once & had some difficulty getting the (early type) gear selection back to good health, so I'm reluctant to do it again so soon.

The engine's only done about 3,000 miles since I rebuilt it (without doing the little ends, of course :rolleyes:) & I changed the clutch, all the seals & most other things then. Might I get away with using the same head gasket?

I realise that I'm going to have to upset the tappet clearances etc, but if I put everything back exactly as it came off, I should be OK.
 

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
Well, I've finally bitten the bullet & removed OCC's cylinder head:

IMG_5496.JPG

At least the bores still look good:

IMG_5495.JPG

Then I took the pistons out & found that No. 2 con-rod bearings are absolutely shot after around 3,000 miles (top, compared here to a normal one from No. 3 piston):

IMG_5500.JPG

On brief examination tonight, the crank journal looks OK. I'm somewhat surprised at the damage & suspect this is the cause of the knocking at high revs as the wear is severe.

I'm going to replace the valve springs & piston gudgeon pins whilst I'm on as I've got the parts handy. I can't feel any play in the little ends, but I might as well do them when everything's apart. Of course, I'll give everything a good check so that hopefully it will be OK when I put it back together....;)
 
Last edited:

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
If that's the pair of shells from No2, I assume the worn one is the top one, and those two tramlines down to the copper in the one shell, with nothing on the other, look very odd.

There
 

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
If that's the pair of shells from No2, I assume the worn one is the top one, and those two tramlines down to the copper in the one shell, with nothing on the other, look very odd.

There

The good one is from No.3 piston for comparison :). The other half of No.2 is just like the damaged one shown.
 

harveyp6

Well-Known Member
If the crank doesn't have ridges corresponding to those tramlines then I'd guess that there has been some kind of debris that has got in there, but if the crank is damaged I'd be pretty sure you'd notice it.

PS. I'd still be thinking about measuring the journal how ever good it looks to the eye in view of the short length of time the bearing lasted.
 
Last edited:

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
Thanks Gentlemen, I'll hopefully get a good look tonight & report back.

Do you think is it likely that my high rev vibration was from this bearing? I haven't found any other possibilities so far.
 

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
Well it's not good news :(

I've had a decent look at the crankshaft journal for No. 2 piston & it has some 'ribs' that match the bearing grooves. They're not massive but the crank will need machining, so it's engine (the remains of...) & gearbox out. I suppose I could take the gearbox off & get to the clutch & flywheel, but it's probably easier to grasp the nettle.

You can just about see the problem:

IMG_5501.JPG

There is a similar issue with No. 4 although not as pronounced.

The crank is already 10 thou under size, so will have to be taken another 10 or 20 thou. Looking at our vital P6 parts suppliers, I should hopefully be able to get some appropriate bearings.
 

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
I visited the NEC Restoration Show on Friday & managed to talk with both Ranald & Ian at the P6 Club stand about my car's problem.

The concensus was to measure the journals to see how bad they were & then decide whether or not to remove the engine. As I was also concerned about having issues with the early gear linkage when I potentially put the unit back in the car, Ian suggested trying to remove the engine without the gearbox.

I measured the big end journals today & found that they were all reasonably 'round' although number 2 (the badly worn bearing) is oval to the tune of 5 thou. I've bitten the bullet & removed the engine without the gearbox, which was reasonably easy as I'd removed the head & sump so everything was accessible & the sump wasn't there to foul the cross-member.

So, here we go again....

IMG_5522sml.jpg

IMG_5523.JPG

It may be a bit harder to get the engine back in, but there's plenty of room, so we'll see when the time comes.
 

Dave3066

Well-Known Member
I'd be tempted to replace the engine mounts with VW ones while the engine is out Phil. It's an easy job and well worth the effort. I think I put some pictures in Lady C's thread when I did them a few years ago, yes here it is about 3/4 of the way down this page Engine out.

Dave
 

Phil Robson

Well-Known Member
I'd be tempted to replace the engine mounts with VW ones while the engine is out Phil. It's an easy job and well worth the effort. I think I put some pictures in Lady C's thread when I did them a few years ago, yes here it is about 3/4 of the way down this page Engine out.

Dave
My engine mounts are pretty good, Dave. What is the advantage of VW mounts?

I have now taken the crank to Park Engineering in Malton, North Yorkshire to get reground. They are well known & reputable & in fact put hardened seats in my 2000's head several years ago, together with new valve guides & a skim due to some corrosion after sitting for 34 years.

Looking at the head; I'm going to take the opportunity to replace the valve springs as I have a NOS set, so it would be foolish not to when everything's in bits. These are the valves on No 2 cylinder - is the exhaust valve a peculiar colour?

IMG_5551.JPG

IMG_5555.JPG
 

Demetris

Well-Known Member
The number 2 exhaust valve seems to run hotter than the others. Perhaps the tappet clearance was closing up on this one?
The replacement engine mounts will make your engine feel considerably smoother. While the standard mounts are good enough on supporting the engine weight, they soon settle under the weight and they do not really isolate the vibrations.
 
Top