New camshaft/lifters going in.

DamianZ28

Active Member
Hi all, Have bought camshaft & set of new lifters , these were the only parts I didn't replace during the engine rebuild. Also went for the uprated oil pump. The only thing is my rev counter doesn't work, silly question but is there a way of knowing when the car is at 2000rpm for bedding in the cam for 20mins ? I've not looked into the reason why its not working, if I remove it then can it be tested in any way, can it be wired direct to the coil to see if works as then I can set the RPM to bed in the new camshaft, many thanks Damian.

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When my rev counter quit I removed it to send off for repair, only to discover the car would no longer start without it!
Can't advise how to test yours, sorry. May I ask what cam you chose?
 
Couldn't you use a Strobe with an RPM counter? There's an App, if you have a very modern phone. Strobe RPM Tacho Lite
 
There are very cheap inductive rev counters on ebay...... I have one in the garage but I don;t think I've tested it yet.
search for - "Digital Engine RPM Tach Tachometer Hour Meter Gauge"
£8 if you can wait a couple of weeks.
 
You could also do some strobing with a fluorescent light - if you make one white mark on the fan belt, and can make it appear stationery under the fluoro (assuming your power is 50cps) that will be 3000rpm; 2 marks equally spaced,1500rpm. Alternatively get a dwell/tach meter :-
AUTOMOTIVE DIGITAL MULTIMETER with DWELL / TACHOMETER & TEMPERATURE RANGES ALT/MM-D03145-06
Not long after I got my p6b I actually found my old analogue meter in a box,and it still works! They connect from one side of the coil to earth. Very handy tool with cars like ours. Probably more accurate than the dash instrument.
 
not sure the 'running in' is really needed? after all Rover would not have done that but aware nearly all manufacturers do Dyno test or bench test an engine before installation to ensure no leaks. mechanical issues etc modern cars don't have any running 'in' periods but advise to drive with care for first 500 miles . much like new tyres also need 'running in' for 50-100 miles before driving like lunatic ( as most do on roads these days) however if you want to run engine for 20mins approx 2000 ought ot be Ok rather than an actual 2000. I was aware many many yards ago ( don't ask) that engine manufactures of that age (70's) suggested smooth driving. no harsh acceleration and gentle gear changes for first 500 -1000 miles to bed components down. good luck with cam change ( mine I still sitting in garage with tappets after 6 years) don't forget will be noisy for first 2 mins or so until oil pressure settles and air is expelled from tappets!
 
not sure the 'running in' is really needed? after all Rover would not have done that but aware nearly all manufacturers do Dyno test or bench test an engine before installation to ensure no leaks. mechanical issues etc modern cars don't have any running 'in' periods but advise to drive with care for first 500 miles . much like new tyres also need 'running in' for 50-100 miles before driving like lunatic ( as most do on roads these days) however if you want to run engine for 20mins approx 2000 ought ot be Ok rather than an actual 2000. I was aware many many yards ago ( don't ask) that engine manufactures of that age (70's) suggested smooth driving. no harsh acceleration and gentle gear changes for first 500 -1000 miles to bed components down. good luck with cam change ( mine I still sitting in garage with tappets after 6 years) don't forget will be noisy for first 2 mins or so until oil pressure settles and air is expelled from tappets!

Hi, I agree wholeheartedly, I've never done it. I think that's pretty harsh treatment for a new or rebuilt engine, it's shit or bust for it. It doesn't give you much time to shut it down if there are any noises or problems or it all goes wrong in spectacular fashion. I've always let it tick over with frequent throttle blips whilst checking for leaks and final timing and mixture checks.

Colin
 
I have not personally 'run in' an engine, so I will just use my Rover as an example. My Rover's original engine was 'run in' at the factory. My 4.6 litre engine was 'run in' after installation at Graeme Cooper Automotive in Sydney. The latter for 20 minutes with the engine speed (not camshaft speed) remaining at or above 2000rpm. Below is the front page of a journal article. The introduction makes the point that the 'running in' period is directly linked to component longevity and failure. From my own experience of driving my Rover with two engines 'run in' in very different ways, I would not advise following the factory method.
Introduction.JPG

Ron.
 
Ron,

What was the 'factory method' please? Can the results of the test reported above be relevant to our engines where the camshaft contact is rubbing and not rolling? I am aware of a lot of dicussion about the need for high levels of ZDDP in oils used in 'older' engines with flat faced cam tappets, especially ,most specifically immediately after a rebuild. Jag XK120 engines get a mention in this topic. Seeing as there are many 'modern' OHC engines still using flat tappets, I do not understand why these should behave differently. A metallurgy issue? Do you think the reputation our V8s have for high cam wear is due to inadequate oil changes, or related to the small oil pump in the pre-SD1 models?
 
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This thread is about a new camshaft install and as such the running in is in fact referring to breaking in a new camshaft. It is essential that the correct procedure is followed otherwise it is highly likely that one or more camshaft lobes will be wiped off, the result will mean the engine will run poorly with no performance and the camshaft and lifters will be scrap.
The lobes of the camshaft and the bottom of the lifters must be coated in a break in lube, such as made by Comp Cams.
Cam & Lifter Installation Lube • 8 Oz. Bottle

If the engine is allowed to idle at any time during initial start up damage will likely be done.
On start up engine oil pressure must be verified as good and the running speed set to the required 2000 - 2500 rpm. Constant checking for leaks and coolant temp is required, I use fans placed in front of the car to push air through the rad opening.

If any issues occur that mean the break in period has to be aborted the engine must be shut down, the problem fixed, and then the break in period re started.
The last Rover V8 cam break in I had ran noticeably quieter after around 15 mins as the surfaces bedded in.

As an aside current thinking on running in new engines with fresh bores, pistons and rings is not to baby them but to make them work hard from the off to ensure bedding in of piston rings and not having glazed bores leading to low compression and oil burning.
A 289 Ford engine I had suffered with low compression after 500 miles, I worked it hard and the cylinder pressures came up, I was lucky I caught it in time.
Working hard does not mean high rpms but hard pulling to a moderate rpm and then letting the car push the engine back down again in order to force the piston rings against the bores and not let the rings polish or glaze the bores.
 
Ron,

What was the 'factory method' please? Can the results of the test reported above be relevant to our engines where the camshaft contact is rubbing and not rolling?

I could well be wrong but my understanding JP is not more than a minute or two with variable revs. When the new Rover was sold, the British Leyland service period in Australia was for servicing at 1600km (1000 miles), 5000km (3000 miles), 10,000km (6000 miles), 15,000km (9000 miles), and 20,000km (12,000 miles). The warranty in the 1970s was 12 months or 20,000km.

The run-in and subsequent wear are even more important with our engines given the design and contact mode of the camshaft and lifters. The base of our lifters is convex and being slightly offset with the lobe centreline delivers rotation of the lifter. As they ride across the eccentric shape of the lobe, the lifter is constantly rotating which helps to reduce friction. One of the biggest contributors to premature camshaft and lifter wear is insufficient lubrication during run-in. By running the engine at 2000 plus revs during this period, sufficient splash occurs to lubricate the camshaft lobes. Remember that there is no dedicated gallery providing oil to the camshaft, it is reliant on splash alone.

Ron.
 
This thread is about a new camshaft install and as such the running in is in fact referring to breaking in a new camshaft. It is essential that the correct procedure is followed otherwise it is highly likely that one or more camshaft lobes will be wiped off, the result will mean the engine will run poorly with no performance and the camshaft and lifters will be scrap.
The lobes of the camshaft and the bottom of the lifters must be coated in a break in lube, such as made by Comp Cams.
Cam & Lifter Installation Lube • 8 Oz. Bottle

If the engine is allowed to idle at any time during initial start up damage will likely be done.
On start up engine oil pressure must be verified as good and the running speed set to the required 2000 - 2500 rpm. Constant checking for leaks and coolant temp is required, I use fans placed in front of the car to push air through the rad opening.

If any issues occur that mean the break in period has to be aborted the engine must be shut down, the problem fixed, and then the break in period re started.
The last Rover V8 cam break in I had ran noticeably quieter after around 15 mins as the surfaces bedded in.

As an aside current thinking on running in new engines with fresh bores, pistons and rings is not to baby them but to make them work hard from the off to ensure bedding in of piston rings and not having glazed bores leading to low compression and oil burning.
A 289 Ford engine I had suffered with low compression after 500 miles, I worked it hard and the cylinder pressures came up, I was lucky I caught it in time.
Working hard does not mean high rpms but hard pulling to a moderate rpm and then letting the car push the engine back down again in order to force the piston rings against the bores and not let the rings polish or glaze the bores.

I totally agree with your advice Cobraboy. As you say, working hard does not mean high revs. After my 4.6 was run-in (camshaft break-in), the workshop manager that did the work advised me to drive when possible with high load, low revs. In other words, find hills, put some weight in the car and work it hard, but not more than moderate revs.

Ron.
 
This article is from Crane Cams. The Rover V8 is a 'flat tappet - camshaft engine'.
Ron.

The reference for this article is;

"How to break-in your flat tappet camshaft." Engine Builder, vol. 48, no. 8, Aug. 2011, p. 42. Gale General OneFile.
 

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Hi all, many thanks for all your input, much appreciated! haven't started it yet due to DIY commitments for her who must be obeyed :-o.

My strobe gun is an older version so doesn't have the digital read out, I have anew Iphone so I've downloaded the Strobe RPM Tacho Lite APP but forgive my ignorance, just been out to test it, TDC marks already marked in white on the bottom pully, turn the app on so my phone light flashes like a proper strobe gun, set the RPM to 2000 and what then ? lol, shine it on the pully, do I increase the revs or what, ? probably easier to get another rev counter. I did a top end rebuild on the last P6 with all new parts, rev counter worked so bedding in was straight forward.
 
Hi all, many thanks for all your input, much appreciated! haven't started it yet due to DIY commitments for her who must be obeyed :-o.

My strobe gun is an older version so doesn't have the digital read out, I have anew Iphone so I've downloaded the Strobe RPM Tacho Lite APP but forgive my ignorance, just been out to test it, TDC marks already marked in white on the bottom pully, turn the app on so my phone light flashes like a proper strobe gun, set the RPM to 2000 and what then ? lol, shine it on the pully, do I increase the revs or what, ? probably easier to get another rev counter. I did a top end rebuild on the last P6 with all new parts, rev counter worked so bedding in was straight forward.

I would say it is a very good idea to buy another rev counter, one that will reach into the car so you can keep the revs between 2000 and 3000, not more nor less. Move the throttle so it oscillates between those bounds for the 20 minute minimum.

Ron.
 
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