Fuel injection conversion
- Thread starter Kiwirob
- Start date
Not in an SD1 but the technical implementation is covered in huge technical detail here in a land rover: http://www.conehead.org/Projects/LandRover/EFi/EFi-2.15.pdf
I reckon that's pretty much all the info anyone needs a really great write-up.
It's basically self-contained. power, ignition and earth connections to the car (and ideally a digital speedo input - this isn't a mapping factor but controls low speed idle and the speed limiter - which you probably don't want). The Hotwire system is definitely superior to the Vitesse flapper system. If you can, get lambda probe bosses in each exhaust and run it in catalyst/feedback mode. This will tweak and "self-tune" the basic maps. Eventually, you'll probably want a custom chip which is a very, very easy upgrade.
I reckon that's pretty much all the info anyone needs a really great write-up.
It's basically self-contained. power, ignition and earth connections to the car (and ideally a digital speedo input - this isn't a mapping factor but controls low speed idle and the speed limiter - which you probably don't want). The Hotwire system is definitely superior to the Vitesse flapper system. If you can, get lambda probe bosses in each exhaust and run it in catalyst/feedback mode. This will tweak and "self-tune" the basic maps. Eventually, you'll probably want a custom chip which is a very, very easy upgrade.
Another useful doc is land rovers fuel injection manual. Good pictures, wiring reference and overview of operation: http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Manuals/Range-Rover-Manual-Fuel-Injection.pdf
In fact I'd start here.
In fact I'd start here.
mikecoombs
Active Member
The later SD1 manual (black cover and quite thick) has the fuel injection in detail. The ECU sits under a plate at the tip of the passenger footwell with the harness running out into the passenger side engine bay. The fittings, pipes and wiring is very similar for both federal and Vitesse systems though the manifolds are completely different. The fuel pump is on the drivers side transmission tunnel sill about half way alongish. It is surrounded by a cocoon of insulation and the pipes running over the transmission to the fuel filter which sits on the passenger guard up near the firewall need to be plastic and insulated. The steel ones vapour lock badly on anything but a full tank of fuel...Problem is the fuel heats up on its trip to the regulator then the overflowing hot fuel goes back to the tank where it heats up the main supply....I suspect they relocated these things on the Vitesse the car I had was a federal Australian spec one from '83.
clive P62
Active Member
I had a vitesse a few years ago which suffered from hot starting.
Fuel pump runs through a ceramic old type resistor which when ages causes all manner of running issues.
Fitted a later solid state resistor and what a difference.
Not sure if he is still trading but a chap called Mark Adams is the injection guru for all v8s and TVR, he remapped my vitesse ecu and fitted the much larger jag 4.2 litre air flow meter and on the rolling road on a standard engine it produced 220 bhp, lots more midrange torque + 145mph no probs
Clive.
Fuel pump runs through a ceramic old type resistor which when ages causes all manner of running issues.
Fitted a later solid state resistor and what a difference.
Not sure if he is still trading but a chap called Mark Adams is the injection guru for all v8s and TVR, he remapped my vitesse ecu and fitted the much larger jag 4.2 litre air flow meter and on the rolling road on a standard engine it produced 220 bhp, lots more midrange torque + 145mph no probs
Clive.
Keith Fry
Member
Hi
Has anyone any knowledge of or experience of the aftermarket fuel injection systems which have been developed by Burlen and also by Kee, a company in Chelmsford, please.
I am interested in this since it may provide a way for the Duchess to run better on lpg and petrol. She runs OK at the moment, but the setup is always a compromise between the needs of the two fuels. If it were possible to have 2 sets of injectors, one set for lpg and the other for petrol and 2 ecu's one for lpg and the other for petrol, then, in theory at least, when switching from one fuel to another the timing is reset and the fuelling is optimised for the selected fuel. This is what happens on modern lpg vehicles which have their own dedicated lpg ecu in addition to the ecu put into the vehicle by the manufacturer. This ecu sets the parameters for the selected fuel.
Although lpg has decreased in availability of late, it is still a good, clean and cheap alternative to petrol and it makes the Duchess so cheap to run (no tax and comprehensive insurance at less than £100 pa). I can buy (sometimes!!) lpg at 55p per litre which means that with petrol at 115p per litre and the Duchess doing about 22 mpg on gas the mileage in cost terms is about 45 mpg price equivalent. Even at 65p per litre the consumption is 39 mpg price equivalent, so good news. I do about 5000 miles per year so it costs me, excluding maintenance, about 16p per mile.
I think that fuel injection is a much more controlled way of delivery fuel to an engine and I would like to install this in my car if possible. So a long road begins!
Has anyone any knowledge of or experience of the aftermarket fuel injection systems which have been developed by Burlen and also by Kee, a company in Chelmsford, please.
I am interested in this since it may provide a way for the Duchess to run better on lpg and petrol. She runs OK at the moment, but the setup is always a compromise between the needs of the two fuels. If it were possible to have 2 sets of injectors, one set for lpg and the other for petrol and 2 ecu's one for lpg and the other for petrol, then, in theory at least, when switching from one fuel to another the timing is reset and the fuelling is optimised for the selected fuel. This is what happens on modern lpg vehicles which have their own dedicated lpg ecu in addition to the ecu put into the vehicle by the manufacturer. This ecu sets the parameters for the selected fuel.
Although lpg has decreased in availability of late, it is still a good, clean and cheap alternative to petrol and it makes the Duchess so cheap to run (no tax and comprehensive insurance at less than £100 pa). I can buy (sometimes!!) lpg at 55p per litre which means that with petrol at 115p per litre and the Duchess doing about 22 mpg on gas the mileage in cost terms is about 45 mpg price equivalent. Even at 65p per litre the consumption is 39 mpg price equivalent, so good news. I do about 5000 miles per year so it costs me, excluding maintenance, about 16p per mile.
I think that fuel injection is a much more controlled way of delivery fuel to an engine and I would like to install this in my car if possible. So a long road begins!
Geordie Jim
Member
Just found this thread, my '71 P6 has the 14CUX efi.
See it on this page, scroll down to find UCA 445J
Older News to Dec 2015 - Kits and Classics
See it on this page, scroll down to find UCA 445J
Older News to Dec 2015 - Kits and Classics
The 14CUX has switchable maps based on the tune resistor. Might be possible to use this for petrol/LPG. The conversion for EFi Range Rovers is possible but more expensive, so I assume it uses this method.
This is something I am working towards on my RV8 powered landrover at the moment - the P6 is off the road awaiting a replacment steering idler, and after just over a month of getting 20mpg in the Defender I have decided it's time to take action! I have been thinking about this for years, and had bought the LPG injectors (Valtek type 34's). Yesterday I took delivery of the other LPG gear i need to progress (vaporiser, shutoff solenoids, filters, pipework etc)
The vehicle is already fuel injected with Megasquirt, which is also driving Ford EDIS based crank triggered ignition. My plan is this:
- Fit LPG injection front end (the vehicle was previously LPG'd with a mixer ring induction setup)
- Switch between LPG injectors and Petrol injectors using MS to trigger the change when the coolant is up to temp. Fuelling and timing maps will change simultaneously.
- I plan to add an input to the MS so that I can monitor gas line pressure and set the MS to switch back to Petrol if it drops below a set figure (This will need to be determined from datalogging AFRs and line pressure).
- A switch will be fitted on the dash to allow you to manually select either fuel if necessary (this will only allow you to switch to LPG if coolant temp and line pressure is ok, but will allow switching over to petrol at any time)
- From a safety point of view the MS will shut off the LPG solenoids after 3 seconds if the engine is not running (it does this with the petrol pump already).
- Run resistors in line with the LPG injectors to make them appear high impedance to the ECU. This has the benefit of being cheap and easy, but the downside is increased injector deadtime (apparently).
- Use on of the available "Peak and hold" PWM boards and use this drive each set of injectors in PWM mode, simply switching the +12v supply between each set. This will give better deadtime figures but adds some complexity and cost.
This is a priority for me to get running, as it means I can save some money, and keep the P6 off the salty roads this winter and give it some TLC (after it doing stirling service being my daily for the last few years - check my fuelly stats to see!) however with a 3 month old baby I don't have the free time I once did for projects like this, i'll be trying to grab the odd hour here and there on it as I can.
ghce
Well-Known Member
I think the last part of your post summed it up nicely "3 month old baby" I am in the same boat though mine is 3 1/2 months old and to be honest I have no time in the day for anything but baby!
I received a large order from a customer 3 weeks ago that I need to build and guess what 3 weeks later havent even made an attempt to start it
so TBH your chances of Rover time are like mine, close to nil.Graeme
Its hard isn't it!
I did manage 3hrs this weekend, didn't get much done though - managed to offer up the vap unit and temporarily lash it into place with some steel angle offcuts I had in the garage. The position needs to be finalised and the bracket then welded up into something pretty looking.
I also managed to fab up some brackets to hold the drivers side bank of LPG injectors in position. I have no idea what I am going to do with the passenger side with the plenum in the way.... I will see if I can tackle that next weekend.
I did manage 3hrs this weekend, didn't get much done though - managed to offer up the vap unit and temporarily lash it into place with some steel angle offcuts I had in the garage. The position needs to be finalised and the bracket then welded up into something pretty looking.
I also managed to fab up some brackets to hold the drivers side bank of LPG injectors in position. I have no idea what I am going to do with the passenger side with the plenum in the way.... I will see if I can tackle that next weekend.
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