Front spring clearance with sheet metal

[302Rover]

Hello all,
recently I changed the front springs in my Rover 2000TC (now a 5000TC thanks to the Ford small block V8). I fitted stiffer springs from a 3500 along with a new, stiffer anti roll bar that I had machined at a local shop. While the car now seems to handle better, there is an annoying problem that remains to be solved. Namely, the top of the front coil is nearly touching the under side of the 'domed' portion of the inner wing. The springs are not absolutely straight, rather they are pitched up a little bit at the front, thus causing the interference with the sheet metal. When I drive the car at highway speeds, there is a lot of thumping and bumping noise going on. Inspection of the sheet metal in the vicinity of the area revealed that there is, indeed, contact.

The springs appear to be properly seated in the cups, both front and rear and centered nicely at the firewall end of the spring. But, as I said earlier, the springs are bowed up, not straight. For reference I am using the very nice set of photos provided in the post about changing out the front springs. These photos are showing straight springs with at least 1/4 inch or more clearance between the top of the front coil and the sheet metal. I have about 0.030 static clearance and clearly interference under dynamic conditions.

So I am wondering what is going on here. The extra weight on the front end isn't all that much more than the original Rover motor/gearbox, maybe no more than 100 lbs and that would be 50 lbs per spring. The spring rate is about 175 lb/in compared to the original springs at about 150 lb/in.

Before I take the drastic step of cutting out the sheet metal and reforming domes to give more clearance, I would really like to find the root cause of the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Demetris]

Tom,
the problem probably is the replacement springs that you fitted. I remember that Chris York also had a similar problem in the past with replacement front springs that bowed upwards. With decent springs this was solved. I wouldn't alter the inner wings anyway. These springs are meant to work straight and not bowed. Since they started to deform in this way, there is a possibility that they will get worse.

 

[harveyp6]

^^^WHS^^^

 

[302Rover]

Tom,
the problem probably is the replacement springs that you fitted. I remember that Chris York also had a similar problem in the past with replacement front springs that bowed upwards. With decent springs this was solved. I wouldn't alter the inner wings anyway. These springs are meant to work straight and not bowed. Since they started to deform in this way, there is a possibility that they will get worse.

Demetris,
I recall seeing a post by Chris about that problem. The springs I ordered were from a very reputable seller and are original Rover springs. The springs that I removed were also bowed but in the opposite direction, i.e. with the concave part of the bow down and the bow was in the middle of the spring. Those also rubbed against the sheet metal. I thought the problem was due to old springs and that I could fix the problem by replacing them. That didn't work;-)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[302Rover]

Hello all,
recently I changed the front springs in my Rover 2000TC (now a 5000TC thanks to the Ford small block V8). I fitted stiffer springs from a 3500 along with a new, stiffer anti roll bar that I had machined at a local shop. While the car now seems to handle better, there is an annoying problem that remains to be solved. Namely, the top of the front coil is nearly touching the under side of the 'domed' portion of the inner wing. The springs are not absolutely straight, rather they are pitched up a little bit at the front, thus causing the interference with the sheet metal. When I drive the car at highway speeds, there is a lot of thumping and bumping noise going on. Inspection of the sheet metal in the vicinity of the area revealed that there is, indeed, contact.

The springs appear to be properly seated in the cups, both front and rear and centered nicely at the firewall end of the spring. But, as I said earlier, the springs are bowed up, not straight. For reference I am using the very nice set of photos provided in the post about changing out the front springs. These photos are showing straight springs with at least 1/4 inch or more clearance between the top of the front coil and the sheet metal. I have about 0.030 static clearance and clearly interference under dynamic conditions.

So I am wondering what is going on here. The extra weight on the front end isn't all that much more than the original Rover motor/gearbox, maybe no more than 100 lbs and that would be 50 lbs per spring. The spring rate is about 175 lb/in compared to the original springs at about 150 lb/in.

Before I take the drastic step of cutting out the sheet metal and reforming domes to give more clearance, I would really like to find the root cause of the problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tom

I have added two photos, one showing an end view of the front of the spring and the second showing a side view. You can see the tight clearance in the front view and the sort of 'bent' configuration in the side view.

 

[Demetris]

Tom, how did you compress the springs to assemble them? Did you use the 3 factory rods or other conventional spring compressors?
With the suspension at full drop, does their position improve?
The springs definitely don't look right, but i cannot really figure out why.

 

[billoddie]

Just an ignorant guess, but are the springs too long?

 

[quattro]

Mine curve downwards.



I do seem to remember that they need to be fitted at a certain position, i.e. with the colour identification line at the top. if you have new springs with no line, then you need to fit them so that the ends of the spring are at the bottom. If they finish at different places, fit them so that they finish each side of the bottom.

I hope that makes sense

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Hmmm, I am inclined to think that if the spring has a curve in either direction, then something isn't right. To my mind the spring should lie in a straight line, and there should be no contact under any circumstances between the top of the spring and the underside of the guard.

I went out and took a couple of photos of the springs in my Rover. They are Australian made K-Mac springs that I fitted in 1990. To date they have provided just under 221,000 Miles (356,000km) of service, and as can be seen, they lie in a straight line.





The clearance between the top of the spring and the underside of the guard is easily more than 2cm as I can slide my fingers within the space without any problem.

They are rather grubby at present, some dirt roads following rain in combination with left overs from a large herd of cattle.

Ron.

 

[colnerov]

Hi, Could this be down to where the spring cup is settled on the rubber covered end
of the rod? The cup can't move on it, it just "squirms" the rubber. So I would say if
the spring was compressed again and let the cup move down by adjustment of the
compressor studs once the load is off the rubber half ball. I hope this makes sense!

Colin

 

[302Rover]

Hi, Could this be down to where the spring cup is settled on the rubber covered end
of the rod? The cup can't move on it, it just "squirms" the rubber. So I would say if
the spring was compressed again and let the cup move down by adjustment of the
compressor studs once the load is off the rubber half ball. I hope this makes sense!

Colin

Hi Colin,
I did think about that and tried to compress the spring a bit to shift the cup relative to the rod but it returned to its misaligned position. But perhaps I didn't compress enough so will try that again. Plus I thought a little WD40 might help with relative motion between the rubber ball end and the cup but, again, no luck.
Tom

 

[302Rover]

Just an ignorant guess, but are the springs too long?

Nothing 'ignorant' about your guess, rather a good question. I did compare the springs with the old ones and the new springs are about 3/8 inch shorter but right on spec for the set of Rover 3500S springs that I ordered.

Tom

 

[302Rover]

Hmmm, I am inclined to think that if the spring has a curve in either direction, then something isn't right. To my mind the spring should lie in a straight line, and there should be no contact under any circumstances between the top of the spring and the underside of the guard.

I went out and took a couple of photos of the springs in my Rover. They are Australian made K-Mac springs that I fitted in 1990. To date they have provided just under 221,000 Miles (356,000km) of service, and as can be seen, they lie in a straight line.





The clearance between the top of the spring and the underside of the guard is easily more than 2cm as I can slide my fingers within the space without any problem.

They are rather grubby at present, some dirt roads following rain in combination with left overs from a large herd of cattle.

Ron.

Ron,
thanks for posting the pics. Your springs are what I was hoping to achieve with mine, nice and straight (minus, of course, the debris from the herd of cattle;-) On the other hand we don't get too many herds of cattle wandering the streets of Los Angeles so that is one worry I don't have. Clearly there is something wrong with my installation and I need to get to the root cause.

Tom

 

[SydneyRoverP6B]

Hi Tom,

Not a problem To be honest, I don't think the problem has anything to do with the point of contact between the rubber ball end and the spring cup. The force generated by the spring will ensure that everythings sits in the right place once the car is in the static position. The problem to me is with the actual spring and the process by which it has been made.

Ron.

 

[rockdemon]

The springs I ordered were from a very reputable seller and are original Rover springs

Have you contacted them? if you pm me and tell me the seller concerned, i can point them at this post for you.

 

[sowen]

Having looked at the photos, I can't quite tell but it does look a little like the end of the pushrod appears a little higher than the centreline of the spring where it meets the bumpstop. The pushrod needs to be dead on the centreline of the spring at normal ride height to use the spring to hold the cup straight. Any slight variation will be exaggerated in my opinion. I have -2" lowering springs on the front of mine and they sit dead straight, but obviously as the suspension drops on it's travel and the bellcrank moves down on it's arc of travel they begin to curve downwards proportionally.

Is it possible to get a side on photo of the spring Tom?

The only other option if that's not the issue could be Quattro's suggestion that the springs ideally need to be orientated in a particular position with regards to the dead coils of the spring.