Brighter Tail Lights?

302Rover

302Rover

Member
Hello all,
periodically I research ways to get brighter tail lights, looking at things like replacing the incandescent bulbs with LEDs or perhaps halogen bulbs or even brighter incandescent bulbs.

Regarding LEDs, the opinions on various car forums seems to lean towards LEDs being no brighter than incandescent or perhaps even dimmer, at least for a simple bulb swap scenario. A few years ago I did buy one LED brake light bulb and tried it in my P6. Looking directly at it the brightness was about the same as the incandescent bulb but the off axis performance was quite poor. I am hoping that the technology has improved in the last 5 years.

Some suppliers offer a complete replacement package featuring a board with multiple LEDs that allows one to get rid of the old parabolic reflectors in the tail light housing. But these options are pricey and I haven't seen one for the Rover P6.

Others recommend simply replacing the standard 1157 (US spec?) dual filament bulb with a 2357 bulb that is said to have a brake light filament that is twice as bright but the original tail light filament.

And the opinions about halogen bulbs is that they are hot and shouldn't be used unless you have glass lenses (not plastic) or for brake lights only because they are not on for very long periods. Whether or not they are hotter, I don't know.

I've searched this forum but didn't find much that was conclusive. Does anyone have experience with this regarding Rover applications? Or even classic Jaguar applications?

Cheers,
Tom
 
I fitted LED stop/tail lamps a few months ago. The image below shows original filament lamp on the left (tail lamp) and a replacement LED lamp showing tail light centre and stop light far right. This lamp gives excellent illumination, even off axis.

Rearlight_zps967d9849.jpg


Lighting manufacturers are making improvements to LED lamps almost monthly so it pays to have a look around.

Dave
 
Dave3066 said:
I fitted LED stop/tail lamps a few months ago. The image below shows original filament lamp on the left (tail lamp) and a replacement LED lamp showing tail light centre and stop light far right. This lamp gives excellent illumination, even off axis.

Rearlight_zps967d9849.jpg


Lighting manufacturers are making improvements to LED lamps almost monthly so it pays to have a look around.

Dave
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,
thanks for taking the time to post the photos. Could you tell me what LED bulbs you used? And would you happen to have a 'before and after' photo of the stop light?

Cheers,
Tom
 
rp61973 said:
Agreed that LED technology is improving all the time, but I suggest you take a look at this.

http://youtu.be/oKkT22UAhq8
Click to expand...

Very illuminating! and not something I had realized before,. Possibly you could change the tail stop differential by throttling back the current via a resistor change to the tail light circuit. Great video and a potential life saver.


Graeme
 
Tom

These are the LEDs I have fitted at the moment. The price has gone up a bit in the last few months since I bought mine though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-...D-Stop-Brake-Tail-Bulbs-Upgrade-/331072744208

Sorry I didn't take a photo of the stop lamp with the filament :(

I'me very impressed with these though. I've seen those other ones that don't have a great deal of difference between tail ands stop, that's why I bought a couple of different types and tried them out.

Dave
 
Dave3066 said:
Tom

These are the LEDs I have fitted at the moment. The price has gone up a bit in the last few months since I bought mine though.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-...D-Stop-Brake-Tail-Bulbs-Upgrade-/331072744208

Sorry I didn't take a photo of the stop lamp with the filament :(

I'me very impressed with these though. I've seen those other ones that don't have a great deal of difference between tail ands stop, that's why I bought a couple of different types and tried them out.

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,
thanks for the info. I notice that the bulbs you bought are red which is the correct choice to go behind red lenses. Sounds like your observations conclude that there is a sizeable difference between the tail and stop light output, unlike those shown in the Youtube video. Now I need to find a US supplier of these since the UK supplier you bought from doesn't ship to the US.

Cheers,
Tom
 
302Rover said:
I notice that the bulbs you bought are red which is the correct choice to go behind red lenses.
Click to expand...

Tom

These lamps are clear when unpowered but light up red. I'd not seen that before so it confused me a bit when they arrived, I was expecting red LEDs. Another indication of how much these lamps are developing.

Dave
 
Red LEDs will be brighter anyway, this is a native part of the spectrum for the materials used. The pakaging of these can be either red or clear.

A white LED is actually a blue LED and the white is achieved via a phosphor coating. It's less efficient, especially through a further red lens. You definitely don't want these except as side/reversing lamps even behind the red lens.
 
Until a led stop and tail bulb exists with similar, separate lux levels to those from the two corresponding filaments in a tungsten bulb, I see no advantage in fitting them.
 
rp61973 said:
Until a led stop and tail bulb exists with similar, separate lux levels to those from the two corresponding filaments in a tungsten bulb, I see no advantage in fitting them.
Click to expand...


.....er they do exist.....I have some fitted :?

Dave
 
Me too - they've got leds around the outside and more on the end so illuminate all over. They don't get hot, draw little current, are very long lasting and don't alter the appearance. What's not to like?
 
Some of the mushroom shaped LED clusters won't fit our cars as the leg bit isn't long enough before it widens out. I made the mistake of buying a pair and had to use them on my trailer board as they're no good for the P6.
 
Dave3066 said:
rp61973 said:
Until a led stop and tail bulb exists with similar, separate lux levels to those from the two corresponding filaments in a tungsten bulb, I see no advantage in fitting them.
Click to expand...


.....er they do exist.....I have some fitted :?

Dave
Click to expand...

OK, so what are the manufacturer's claimed lux measurements for your LEDs when operating separately in 'stop' and 'tail' modes?
 
rp61973 said:
Dave3066 said:
rp61973 said:
Until a led stop and tail bulb exists with similar, separate lux levels to those from the two corresponding filaments in a tungsten bulb, I see no advantage in fitting them.
Click to expand...


.....er they do exist.....I have some fitted :?

Dave
Click to expand...

OK, so what are the manufacturer's claimed lux measurements for your LEDs when operating separately in 'stop' and 'tail' modes?
Click to expand...

I'm not really interested in what the manufacturers claimed lux measurements are. I can see a comparable difference with the naked eye....and it passed an MOT so that's good enough for me. I don't see many manufacturers quoting lux levels for filament lamps fitted to stop/tail lights.

Dave
 
But have you given any thought to why a standard bulb has a 5W filament for the tail and a 21W filament for the stop, i.e. over 4 times the power rating differential? You may think there looks to be sufficient discrimination between the stop and tail (presumably from a short distance), but have you tried the same test standing 100m from the rear of your car in the dark and in fog or heavy rain?

Noted that the LED bulbs that you provided a link to are not 'e' rated.

As long as you are happy with it that is the important thing.
 
rp61973 said:
But have you given any thought to why a standard bulb has a 5W filament for the tail and a 21W filament for the stop, i.e. over 4 times the power rating differential? You may think there looks to be sufficient discrimination between the stop and tail (presumably from a short distance), but have you tried the same test standing 100m from the rear of your car in the dark and in fog or heavy rain?

Noted that the LED bulbs that you provided a link to are not 'e' rated.

As long as you are happy with it that is the important thing.
Click to expand...

Okay, for others reading this let's just be clear about something. Four times the power consumption, because that's what the 5W and 21W are, power consumption, not power output, does not equate to 4 times as much light output. A lot of that extra power consumption is heat generated by the filament.

Also, I've not tried the same comparison test from 100m, but then I've not looked at a standard filament lamp from 100m either. Thus far I've not had anyone drive into the back of me, or fail to see me and I probably do a lot more miles than most in my P6, so yes I'm happy :D

Right, where's the tape measure and camera :wink:

Dave
 
Need to measure the output in a real world installation to get anything meaningful.

Incidentally with regards to the power thing. LEDs get less (much less) efficient as power goes up due to the semiconductor junction temperature.

Filament bulbs get more efficient. So 21W is not 4 and a bit times more light than 5W, it's more.

Can't help but feel additional LED hi-level brake lights plus the originals are the best option, keeping you legal plus giving the quicker light-up times and visibility of hi-level LEDs.
 
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