Bodywork repair guide needed

[DayleW]

Hi.

Could someone point me in the direction of a good 'how to' guide for bodywork repairs. I have tried TV shows like car sos but they always seem to gloss over so much. My Rover is starting to look sorry for herself with cracking/flaking paintwork on the bonnet and rust holes in the wings. I have never done any filling or welding before but am happy to give it a go. It has gotten so bad that I can't make her look any worse anyway.

All the Best,
Dayle

 

[sdibbers]

Bad Obsession Motorsport are doing a series on YouTube right now called Project Binky. They are resto modding a classic mini. The good news is they are very much detail orientated. A lot of the stuff is about mechanical design, but a fair amount is about body repair and fabrication. I've learnt quite a few wrinkles from them. Bad Obsession Motorsport

 

[PeterZRH]

The biggest problem you have is when you deal with this, it often looks far worse when you start to sort it before it gets better. For example the alloy peeling you talk about is common when water gets under the paint and spreads. You'll very likely need to take back a good portion of the bonnet to bare metal rather than try and cover it, you simply can't leave any powdery corrosion and not expect the paint to lift again. Incidentally, you need a different primer for aluminium than steel, either epoxy or zinc chromate (save you some heartache if you were going to use normal etch....). With the wings, clean up the visible rust but you'll need to tackle this mostly from the inside. With a P6 swapping the wing is easy so unless you see this as an exercise in repair skills, it's likely easier to source a secondhand wing which isn't holed. As you' likely be repainting it anyway, no great loss here.

Many of the finishing skills take a lot of effort rather than large amounts of skill but things like welding have a real art to achieve good penetration AND look neat. Obviously this a a structural and safety issue. This takes practice and some guidance from people who know what they are doing at least to start with. Hands up, I've tried and I can't do it to save my life. Have a go, you might be a real natural! What you'll see on this forum is experienced amateurs get BETTER results than most professionals, simply because you wouldn't pay the hours to do that much preparation and fine fettling. I remember one person spending over 40 hours sorting a D-post which obviously isn't a goer at garage rates for most people.

The first task is assess and prioritize the jobs in question. If you haven't done it before, learn how to remove the wings and the cover sill so you can inspect the well known areas of the car properly. It really only takes 10 minutes to do these after you've done it once (and the nuts and bolts are freed and treated with anti-seize!). And it's a great feeling knowing your car and how it's put together, especially as you can be confident that there are no hidden safety issues. This also allows you to do some conservation work too with products like dinitrol (a superior alternative to the old favourite waxoyl).

Also don't expect perfection. It's easy to be you're own worst critic. If you do localized repairs you'll be able to see them even if someone else can't and thinks your car looks great. It really is little short impossible short of a full respray to get totally perfect colour matching.

 

[So Cal V8]

Hi Dayle.

That's a pretty big question. The fact that you have no experience but are willing to give it a go is great - how you go about it will depend on your skills, time, money and resources. There are tons and tons of videos on YouTube where beginners, like you, and professionals detail their efforts - successes and failures. I have been watching project binky, which is next level stuff, but a great inspiration. There's also a series by an Aussie following the build of his Porsche 911 - home built by Jeff. The projects out there are endless.

Eastwood company also produces a series of how to videos - mainly aimed at selling their products but, good stuff nonetheless. Check out all of builds on here and other forums. Paul - Testrider - did a detailed thread on here about his build, there are so many. RetroRides is another good resource... tonybmw gives a great explanation on how to fab your own panels 1981 BMW E12 M535i - Making Panels | Retro Rides.

It's so hard to point you in one direction - with that said go for it. I know that with the help of this forum and all the other forums out there I am now much more confident about tackling certain jobs that I would have shied away from previously. I have bought a welder and am learning (slowly and badly ) how to weld. I am teaching myself body working and paint - I know it won't be a "professional" job but I am reasonably confident that my results will be more than satisfactory. Hera are a couple of pics of my practice efforts painting the front wing - done on the drive with help from Jack Daniels. Good luck, and keep us updated on your results.

 

[PeterZRH]

Before you start. A dust mask, eye protection which gives full protection (not the spectacle type), heavy cotton overalls (which smolder and don't go up in flames for welding/grinding) and disposable nitrile gloves. Appropriate specialist equipment for welding/spraying. Even with rattlecans, the basic charcoal disposable mask is not a bad idea.

Sorry if that's stating the bleedin' obvious but the reason many paint formulations changed over the years is because one or more of the compounds in the pigments were found to be hazardous over time and you'll be turning this into fine dust which will easily enter your eyes and lungs and even to a certain extent through skin. Add to that the unknown "homemade" additions over the years, like my grandad's favourite, red lead with real lead that may or may not have gone missing from the local naval dockyard.... Basic precautions also like vacuuming up and shaking clothes outside.

Even if they're not toxic, it's not fun waking up with sore eyes and "interesting" flavoured snot. Or like me the occasional trip to the eye hospital to have a metal fragment removed when using an angle grinder.

 

[colnerov]

Hi, As you're fresh to welding start by doing hidden areas, in and around the boot area, in and around the engine bay and the floor and sills. That should get you enough practice for you to proceed to the outer panels. Do one panel at a time, bare metal it, do the repair, trial fit it to make sure it still fits OK with the panels around it. then move on to the next one. As for paint and preparation, for best results come from bare metalled panels don't be tempted to fill out to painted panels you will never get a feathered edge because paint and filler rub down differently. Plus you don't know what type of paint is on there and will the new paint react with it undoing all your good work. Buy more than enough colour to do the whole car, don't buy it 1 litre at a time as you go, every mix will be different despite what the supplier says. Other materials you can buy as you go.

Colin

 

[DayleW]

Thanks for the advice!

The good news is she did pass her MOT the other day, so am pretty confident the safety areas are sorted (touch wood). I will be focusing more on the cosmetic work for now and will leave structural stuff to the guys at the garage. It's more of a tidy up on a budget I'm planning but without being a bodge.

I did pick up an unholed wing to replace one of my holed ones which will need a respray which I plan to do with spray cans. The other wing I may try to weld a repair section in when I am feeling brave enough. Not sure my arc welder is right for the job though. Or if i see a spare going somewhere local I might do that. I am not aware on any hidden areas I can practice on as what was discovered on the MOT has been repaired, but who knows what I will find as I start taking panels off...

I will be sure to check out the project binky videos before I start. Hopefully I can just focus on one panel at a time and get her looking nice again . But I take on board what you said Colin about getting enough paint for the whole project in one batch so as avoid differing colours between batches.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks,
Dayle

 

[unstable load]

Not sure my arc welder is right for the job though. Or if i see a spare going somewhere local I might do that.

You will need a MIG welder to do that properly, and go for a gas shielded one, not the core-filled wire ones.

 

[Quagmire]

www.mig-welding.co.uk is a good site to have a mooch about on, as is retro-rides (one of my favourites, my 3500s has a RR window sticker) as mentioned above.

Also, pretty much any mini-related forum has copious amounts of welding related stuff as you might expect!

 

[roverp480]

I really struggled with MIG welding even though having spent over 40 years welding with a " MMA Stick" welder on my Land Rover . Eventually went on a local evening welding course at the local agricultural college and it was really money well spent.

 

[DayleW]

So three years later.... Repairs have been slower getting started than I would have liked.
I took the Rover off the road about 2 years ago as i found a rust hole. I spent about a year trying to get someone with some welding experience to help me to no avail. At the beginning of this year i finally bit the bullet and decided to go on an evening mig welding course. Unfortunately, Coronavirus hit and the course was postponed before i could finish but I think I've learnt enough to make a start. Six months more and I've managed to finally save up and purchase a mig welder (sealey mighty mig 190). So almost three years after i spotted the rust i started having a poke and a scrape to see how bad it was. As it turns out, pretty bad...

 

[DayleW]

I've started with the off side only to start with.
I found a patch put on by a previous owner which had just been stuck over the rust using what appears to be silicone sealant (it wasn't even welded on!) and covered with copious amounts of underseal. I had been driving around blissfully unaware for years!
So the inner sill is completely rusted along the entire length as is the base unit side going onto the floor pan. The jacking points also look pretty bad.
Fortunately i only live a few minutes away from J R Wadhams in Lye and they had these in stock so have picked them up. I've spent my evening scratching my head and wondering where to start.
I guess I'd better start chopping out the bad and see what's left. I'll let you know how I get on (and hopefully in a lot less than three years this time).

 

[Tom W]

Wow, that’s quite bad. But it is fixable.

I’ve had to do some repairs on my floor pan recently. Things I’ve learned that may help:

If it looks a bit suspect, it probably is. Keep cleaning back and cutting out until you get to good steel. If you don’t, it will inevitably burn through when you weld it, then you’ll have to add a patch next to the first one.

Repair panels can be made successfully with basic hand tools and time.

Try to work back to factory seams where you can. The end result will be more authentic and satisfying. Where you don’t work back to a factory seam, butt weld the joint, not overlap.

Time spent making a patch fit 100% accurate will be more than saved later when welding. Expecting the MIG to fill gaps more than often results in one or other edge burning back. Then you’re left with either blobbing it in, or making another patch. Then a load more grinding to clean it back. If the joint’s tight, it’s easy to get a neat weld that sits into both pieces of metal, penetrates through, and requires minimal grinding.

If it doesn’t go right at first, don’t keep adding weld and hoping. You’ll only have to grind it off. Adjust the settings and continue when the problem’s fixed.

Good luck!

 

[mrtask]

Tom W, that is another impressive bit of work. I thought those brackets were to hold the 'completely knocked down' cars in place for sea transport to the far flung parts of the world where they were finally assembled for sale? You certainly went to a lot of trouble to recreate that fixture.
DayleW, I wish you well defeating the tin worm and getting your car back in shape. Look forward to seeing you document your progress on here.

 

[Tom W]

I think they were for holding the body on while the car was on the track being manufactured, or possibly for locating a jig to repair crash damage. I doubt I have mine in exactly the same place as the original, so it will be useless now if it’s anything to do with jigging. They also seem to be assumed to be the jacking point by some uninformed garages. They’re not, so the floor gets pushed up! They are also tricky to paint any underseal, and are likely to trap dirt.

So really, no good reason to re-make it except my car is very original, has had very little welding so far and I wanted to try and keep it as original as possible. I’m currently trying to work out how I can paint match the original factory colour partial overspray on the floor so it looks original from inside.

I should probably get out more. There are bigger things to worry about, like how my expectations exceeded my ability when it came to wing repair, and now I can’t get the shape quite right!

 

[neil in surrey]

re the tabs = werent they used in the factory when the shell was dunked in the primer

 

[DamianZ28]

Tom W,, stunning work there, really has the factory look!

Dayle, I've been chipping away at my current P6b project doing the rust repair, practise makes perfect. I've been messing with cars for over 30yrs and still enjoy the challenge of DIY resto, I have sprayed several, completed several 'weldothons' all in my single garage. Current garage is wider so its easier having moor room. You'll be amazed at what can be achieved with just good old practise, enthusiasm and patience, the latter two do run out at times lol! This forum is great for advise, YouTube also is very good. As Tom says, cutting back to good clean rust free metal is vital for a good clean strong weld, mine isn't as factory fit as his but still strong & neat..ish, dare i say it I'll use a smidgen of filler to go over the ground down welds to neaten it up, primar and I'll be spraying Gravitex stone chip followed by coat of satin black chassis paint. I use cardboard templates before to get an accurate size of the required repair panel before I cut the steel, even then I trim it as required to get as good fit for welding, I use 1.2mm which is strong & close the original thickenss.
We look forward to seeing your update! good luck

 

[mrtask]

Tom W, never mind going out, nor worrying, get thee back in yer shed and keep practising your tin bashing, which doesn't look far from perfection from here!
Neil, you're probably right, not that I know about these things, but it does look more like a jig attaching point than an eyelet to put a chain through.
Damian, your car looks as if it is coming along nicely.
Dayle W, take heart, you're not the first, and surely not the last, to save a crumbly P6 from disintegration.

 

[Phil Robson]

Great work guys!

I’m pretty sure the lug was to locate the base unit on a jig for the drilling of holes etc or possibly to check dimensions.

 

[chrisw]

Wow. I've scrapped cars in better condition than that.