best uprated oil pump
- Thread starter shiner1
- Start date
stina
New Member
The kit is made by Real Steal , but most of the usual suspects supply it . Rimmer Brothers , Wins etc , and god old ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-P5B-V8- ... 485f8f4231
Easy enough to fit , instructions are good , You'll need to remove the front/timing cover to fit it , that "can" cause the biggest headache with snapped water pump bolts if the cover hasn't been off for many years , Nothing that can't be over come though . Their will be plenty of help on here if you decide to go ahead
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-P5B-V8- ... 485f8f4231
Easy enough to fit , instructions are good , You'll need to remove the front/timing cover to fit it , that "can" cause the biggest headache with snapped water pump bolts if the cover hasn't been off for many years , Nothing that can't be over come though . Their will be plenty of help on here if you decide to go ahead
GRTV8
Well-Known Member
Hello Andy
Got mine from same place as Stina.
Well I think I did - V8 tuner . Helpful dudes and answered any queries straight away .
These guys on the forum will waltz you through any hiccups .
Im a complete nummer when it comes to mechanics - there's your confidence boost .
Oil pump needs to come off - don't try and short cut unless you are a contortionist and want to add new swear words to your repertoire .
Simple enough job , just a time consumer with all the bits and bobs that have to be removed off the front of the engine . Mine is A/c'd so thats why Im grumbling .
As an aside it will vastly improve your oil pressure reading , which in turn gives peace of mind .
Do your timing chain/cogs too, as its only a small detour , and as Ive since experiences - V8 gets up and boogies now .
Ask away - I have a long thread on here from a few months back which will help you .
Gerald
Got mine from same place as Stina.
Well I think I did - V8 tuner . Helpful dudes and answered any queries straight away .
These guys on the forum will waltz you through any hiccups .
Im a complete nummer when it comes to mechanics - there's your confidence boost .
Oil pump needs to come off - don't try and short cut unless you are a contortionist and want to add new swear words to your repertoire .
Simple enough job , just a time consumer with all the bits and bobs that have to be removed off the front of the engine . Mine is A/c'd so thats why Im grumbling .
As an aside it will vastly improve your oil pressure reading , which in turn gives peace of mind .
Do your timing chain/cogs too, as its only a small detour , and as Ive since experiences - V8 gets up and boogies now .
Ask away - I have a long thread on here from a few months back which will help you .
Gerald
Hi Andy,
Has something happened to your oil pump? I ask as it is my understanding that your newly acquired Rover has only covered some 34,000 Miles, so in reality the engine has barely been run in. The standard P6 pump is perfectly acceptable for all applications except when used for extended periods over 5000rpm.
Ron.
Has something happened to your oil pump? I ask as it is my understanding that your newly acquired Rover has only covered some 34,000 Miles, so in reality the engine has barely been run in. The standard P6 pump is perfectly acceptable for all applications except when used for extended periods over 5000rpm.
Ron.
stina
New Member
It's an upgrade Ron .
on a 50 odd year old design , It'll supply more oil at a higher pressure for better lubrication and cooling . Which will lead to better economy , longevity . which in turn will give us something to bicker about for longer . Why would you advise against anyone making upgrades to reliability and performance ? As a default you would do the timing gears and chain while it was apart , and get to know the condition of , and become confident in the motor
on a 50 odd year old design , It'll supply more oil at a higher pressure for better lubrication and cooling . Which will lead to better economy , longevity . which in turn will give us something to bicker about for longer
. Why would you advise against anyone making upgrades to reliability and performance ? As a default you would do the timing gears and chain while it was apart , and get to know the condition of , and become confident in the motor
:roll:
Ron.
Ron.
stina
New Member
SydneyRoverP6B said:
No !
Not understanding that one Ron ! :?
Can you not be more scientific than the rolling eyes smilie ?
I can't see an issue with upgrading the oil pump to something similar to that which was used on the later engines as a good starting point to getting to know an engine and improving on it's reliability ?
GRTV8
Well-Known Member
Ron
Im all for upgrades to keep these old things on the road .
For me peace of mind is 50psi with an upgrade oil pump kit intalled , instead of a fluctuating oil pressure gauge that gave me heart palpitations .
I am also running Penrite HPR30 extra 10 full zinc 20w-60 an upgrade over Castrol 20w-30
up graded radiator fluid - low boiling point and extra inhibiting protection
Electronic ignition - upgraded starting and performance
Upgraded spark plugs
Upgraded radial 195/70/14 tyres
Upgraded shockies
Up graded sway bar
the list goes on
I didnt need to do these upgrades , but the car goes better for them
Cant see your reason to doubt an oil pump upgrade
Gerald
Im all for upgrades to keep these old things on the road .
For me peace of mind is 50psi with an upgrade oil pump kit intalled , instead of a fluctuating oil pressure gauge that gave me heart palpitations .
I am also running Penrite HPR30 extra 10 full zinc 20w-60 an upgrade over Castrol 20w-30
up graded radiator fluid - low boiling point and extra inhibiting protection
Electronic ignition - upgraded starting and performance
Upgraded spark plugs
Upgraded radial 195/70/14 tyres
Upgraded shockies
Up graded sway bar
the list goes on
I didnt need to do these upgrades , but the car goes better for them
Cant see your reason to doubt an oil pump upgrade
Gerald
I have no problem with replacing the original oil pump with an upgrade, provided the upgrade is warranted. Change purely for the sake of change which delivers essentially no real long term benefits I don't agree with. That was why I posed my question to the OP.
When an engine has not been maintained in the correct manner, blocked galleries and scoring result, to name but two, so in such instances it may be prudent to replace the original pump with an upgrade.
With an engine that has been maintained properly and is not subjected to lengthy periods above 5000rpm, the factory fitted P6B oil pump is entirely satisfactory. If it wasn't, my original engine would not have run for over 200,000 Miles (322,000km). Long, essentially non stop running over 600 Miles (1000km) throughout the day or all night again would not have been possible, as the 50 year old pump design would not have been able to cope. Proof beyond the call of duty that the original pump is entirely satisfactory and that the age of the design is irrelevant. At the end, my engine still delivered between 30 and 35 psi oil pressure at 2500 to 3000rpm, thus still within spec, both for a new P6B and the SD1.
The oil pump for the Rover is not meant to be a high pressure pump, rather the volume of oil circulating is the key. If, for what ever reason, the oil pressure is set to be too high, then the skew gears will rapidly wear away, especially the distributor drive gear, and then all forward motion will cease. In my opinion, running an engine with 50psi or more at 2500 rpm, when that engine is at normal running temperature, will lead to premature wear as indicated above, and ultimate failure much earlier than might otherwise be the case.
Ron.
When an engine has not been maintained in the correct manner, blocked galleries and scoring result, to name but two, so in such instances it may be prudent to replace the original pump with an upgrade.
With an engine that has been maintained properly and is not subjected to lengthy periods above 5000rpm, the factory fitted P6B oil pump is entirely satisfactory. If it wasn't, my original engine would not have run for over 200,000 Miles (322,000km). Long, essentially non stop running over 600 Miles (1000km) throughout the day or all night again would not have been possible, as the 50 year old pump design would not have been able to cope. Proof beyond the call of duty that the original pump is entirely satisfactory and that the age of the design is irrelevant. At the end, my engine still delivered between 30 and 35 psi oil pressure at 2500 to 3000rpm, thus still within spec, both for a new P6B and the SD1.
The oil pump for the Rover is not meant to be a high pressure pump, rather the volume of oil circulating is the key. If, for what ever reason, the oil pressure is set to be too high, then the skew gears will rapidly wear away, especially the distributor drive gear, and then all forward motion will cease. In my opinion, running an engine with 50psi or more at 2500 rpm, when that engine is at normal running temperature, will lead to premature wear as indicated above, and ultimate failure much earlier than might otherwise be the case.
Ron.
GRTV8
Well-Known Member
Ron ,
Is your theory based on actual occurrence ?
I can't argue with your theory as Im not sufficient in the mechanical department .
I was totally encouraged by results from those that have gone before me on this forum .
I also queried my low oil pressure with Mal Clark of Bygone Auto , he works professionally with the rover V8 , and encouraged me to upgrade the oil pump as my pressure dropped off after the motor had warmed up to normal temp .
The new pressure of 50-55psi at 2500rpm didnt worry him and even suggested I put in a stiffer relief spring to bring it up to 65-70psi .
Im more than happy with the 50-55psi c/f the 30 and under she showed .
My engine has only just done 62,000m . Regular self servicing even if I hadn't used her - done on 6mth regime .
Maybe the pressure would have been better if I had used her more often .
There are a quite a few P6b's running around over here with the higher pressure pump installed and haven't heard of any failings in and around the pump .
If something goes bump in the night , I will certainly let everyone now I did it wrong .
Gerald
Is your theory based on actual occurrence ?
I can't argue with your theory as Im not sufficient in the mechanical department .
I was totally encouraged by results from those that have gone before me on this forum .
I also queried my low oil pressure with Mal Clark of Bygone Auto , he works professionally with the rover V8 , and encouraged me to upgrade the oil pump as my pressure dropped off after the motor had warmed up to normal temp .
The new pressure of 50-55psi at 2500rpm didnt worry him and even suggested I put in a stiffer relief spring to bring it up to 65-70psi .
Im more than happy with the 50-55psi c/f the 30 and under she showed .
My engine has only just done 62,000m . Regular self servicing even if I hadn't used her - done on 6mth regime .
Maybe the pressure would have been better if I had used her more often .
There are a quite a few P6b's running around over here with the higher pressure pump installed and haven't heard of any failings in and around the pump .
If something goes bump in the night , I will certainly let everyone now I did it wrong .
Gerald
stina
New Member
SydneyRoverP6B said:
The upgrade kit Ron is a high volume kit , the slight rise in pressure coming from the higher volume of oil being forced through the same oil system , (we had a lengthly debate on that recently , you may remember
) So as you say high volume of oil is the key , hence fitting the kit :wink:
As long as it's assembled correctly and the tolerances given in the kit and the W/M are adhered to we shouldn't encounter any problems , Using a little " common " and not revving it hard on a cold engine with thick oil goes without saying
ghce
Well-Known Member
Whilst I cannot see this upgrade causing any harm I do fail to see what real world benefit it may bring, were the V8 a high stressed RPM racing unit I could see the sense to it however it is not. 50 PSi is not high though I would be a little concerned if it went over 65 for long periods.
Looking historically to other motors in more vintage eras many were splash lubrication and I my self ran my modernish MK4 Zephyr V6 on about 3 psi for many years until the engine failed due to broken rings, the bearings looked pretty damn good when I stripped it down.
So I would have to agree with Ron as to why you might want to upgrade, drive gear wear, bearing pressure oblation erosion? I tend to think the MTBF would be inconsequential regardless of which path you choose.
Graeme
Looking historically to other motors in more vintage eras many were splash lubrication and I my self ran my modernish MK4 Zephyr V6 on about 3 psi for many years until the engine failed due to broken rings, the bearings looked pretty damn good when I stripped it down.
So I would have to agree with Ron as to why you might want to upgrade, drive gear wear, bearing pressure oblation erosion? I tend to think the MTBF would be inconsequential regardless of which path you choose.
Graeme
The upgraded oil pump is essentially SD1 pump gears and a spacer to make the P6 housing the same size as the SD1 housing.
I remember fitting one many years ago, and to be honest, it felt smoother and was definitely quieter.
If Rover deemed it necessary to upgrade the oil pump for the SD1, then I cannot see a good reason not to do it on a P6.
Richard
I remember fitting one many years ago, and to be honest, it felt smoother and was definitely quieter.
If Rover deemed it necessary to upgrade the oil pump for the SD1, then I cannot see a good reason not to do it on a P6.
Richard
stina
New Member
ghce said:
Hi Graeme .
I can see why you wouldn't go for the upgrade , by tour own admission you won't change the "O" ring in your reserve tap that has been letting in air for many years , So why would you upgrade an oil pump that is still hanging in there ?
, Sorry couldn't resist . Seriously though as Richard says , it is only upgrading it to the spec of the later engine , and the pressure relief spring should control the higher pressures if it's all set up correctly . I would like to know how many of these kits have been supplied and fitted , i suspect thousands I understood that a good reason for upgrading the oil pump to one that provides greater flow is that the standard V8 lubrication is marginal by the time it gets to the upper galleries of the engine, i.e. cam lobes and rear camshaft bearing.
I may be talking out the back of my head, but this seems to ring a bell. I am sure Harvey will know!
I may be talking out the back of my head, but this seems to ring a bell. I am sure Harvey will know!
The P6B pump was always marginal, which was addressed on the SD1, which is a worthwhile improvement IMO. The cam lobes on 7 & 8 on P6B's wore away regularly, the same thing did happen on SD1's, but to nowhere near the same extent. Draw your own conclusions. If we're going to say that fitting a pump to SD1 spec is a waste of time, then everybody had better start removing all those SD1 heads they've fitted...... Better is better, so fit it if it's in bits....
ghce
Well-Known Member
I must admit I had forgotten the woeful longevity of components in the upper gallery such as rocker shafts and cam lobes and of course more flow to the lifters would help in reducing ticking from them to. From the above perspective I guess that would be a sensible precaution to increase life in those components when you had the engine apart.
Stina when I do the zf box swap that O-Ring will be the first thing to be replaced
Graeme
Stina when I do the zf box swap that O-Ring will be the first thing to be replaced
Graeme
GRTV8 wrote,...
Hi Gerald,
Personally, if you have 55psi at 2500rpm, then I would not be happy with that at all. Everything that I have ever read in Rover V8 books strongly advises against increasing the oil pressure above the factory settings, as the added load will rapidly increase wear on the skew gears leading to their premature failure. If more pressure was possible with the camshaft driven oil pump design, do you not think that Rover would have implemented such a change at the factory?
Increasing the oil pressure apart from wearing away the skew gears also will have a negative impact on fuel consumption, afterall if the load on the engine has increased, more power will be absorbed hence more fuel will be used. It may not be significant, but it will be there all the same.
Ron.
Hi Gerald,
Personally, if you have 55psi at 2500rpm, then I would not be happy with that at all. Everything that I have ever read in Rover V8 books strongly advises against increasing the oil pressure above the factory settings, as the added load will rapidly increase wear on the skew gears leading to their premature failure. If more pressure was possible with the camshaft driven oil pump design, do you not think that Rover would have implemented such a change at the factory?
Increasing the oil pressure apart from wearing away the skew gears also will have a negative impact on fuel consumption, afterall if the load on the engine has increased, more power will be absorbed hence more fuel will be used. It may not be significant, but it will be there all the same.
Ron.
GRTV8
Well-Known Member
Hello Ron
I took the old lady [ p6 i.e. ] for a strop today - all back country 100kmh open road , no traffic .
That new timing chain and sway bar still makes me smile .
Oil pressure once she reached max temperature was 50psi at 2500rpm. So I was a little generous with my previous reading .
Im not convinced that 50psi is not a good thing , but , if it all turns to custard I would love to slap on some SD1 heads and a 3.9 cam .
Im playing with the devil on my shoulder .
I remember way back in the day [ '67 ] when I used to drive a Cortina Gt with cross-ply tyres . I drove her like the devil to wear the tyres out so I could justify buying her a new set of Dunlop SP50's wide oval radials .
I couldn't bring myself to chuck out good tyres . Radials were very new to the market in those days and most cars came out with cross-plies . Now that was a transformation in handling for that era .
Gerald
I took the old lady [ p6 i.e. ] for a strop today - all back country 100kmh open road , no traffic .
That new timing chain and sway bar still makes me smile .
Oil pressure once she reached max temperature was 50psi at 2500rpm. So I was a little generous with my previous reading .
Im not convinced that 50psi is not a good thing , but , if it all turns to custard I would love to slap on some SD1 heads and a 3.9 cam .
Im playing with the devil on my shoulder .
I remember way back in the day [ '67 ] when I used to drive a Cortina Gt with cross-ply tyres . I drove her like the devil to wear the tyres out so I could justify buying her a new set of Dunlop SP50's wide oval radials .
I couldn't bring myself to chuck out good tyres . Radials were very new to the market in those days and most cars came out with cross-plies . Now that was a transformation in handling for that era .
Gerald