Ban on Diesel and Petrol Cars

dmcsweeney

dmcsweeney

Active Member
Hi all,

I wonder how this news will effect classics in the future;

New petrol and diesel cars banned from 2040

It amazes me how Diesel has suddenly become the fuel of the devil since the VW emissions scandal. Now suddenly they want to penalise those of us who switched to more efficient cars. I'm assuming that it won't be long before Ireland follows as an excuse to raise car tax. I'm starting to wonder if classics will be hit, and how fuel availability will suffer. I find it strange that they are quoting EU limits with Brexit pending? I see no long term replacement for Diesel outside of cities until there are more Diesel Hybrids produced.

Regards,
Dave
 
I think our biggest problem in the end will be getting the fuel, oils etc that we need to keep our cars running!

Presumably the infrastructure will start to shift away from selling fossil fuels, possibly in advance of this 2040 date, at which point we are screwed! Imagine having to order a delivery of unleaded just for your classic, the paperwork involved would be mountainous. :confused:

We'll all have to move to the U.S.
 
Reading into this further, and thinking about it;
1. The electrical distribution network won't handle everyone having an electric car. As it stands you could boil a kettle on some of the sub stations out there.
2. The ban is on petrol and diesel cars and vans, it says nothing about hybrids so I would assume fuel would still be required in large quantities.
3. Diesel (and petrol to a lesser extent) would still be required for a multitude of HGVs and machinery (right down to lawn mowers).
4. Bio fuels and gases would probably still be an option.
5. Big oil rules the world :D.

Worst case scenario I'll build a still in the woods and run my P6s on shine. I'll run the rest of the fleet on red diesel!

I think I might shelve my long term plan to stick a B47 diesel in my P6 and start looking for a Diesel Hybrid donor.

Regards,
Dave
 
I work for an oil and gas contractor so I am a bit conflicted! However, we do renewables too - see here some work we did for Statoil on the Hywind project just in the last couple of weeks. The semi-submersible crane vessel is ours:

 
It's only on new car sales. As for infrastructure, as the technology develops further (and it's going at great claps now) I think the distribution networks will be less of an issue. Devices such as high capacity batteries are helping to de-centralize power generation. The two big issues with renewable energy in the past were:
1) Power output. That's less of an issue now as solar, wind and other forms are far more efficient than even five years ago.
2) Distribution. With devices like Tesla's power wall batteries means that you don't have to use the power when the suns shining or the wind is blowing. Also, having that ability means that conventional power generation can run at a mean level. So things like the hydroelectric damn in Wales used to supply power for the Coronation St ad break won't be needed in the future.

I love my P6 and my Saabs, but we need to move on if we don't want to poison ourselves or the planet.
 
It is being described as 'the end of the internal combustion engine'.
But what none of the papers or TV reports ever mention is the classic car scene - what impact all of this will have on the thousands of people who own and run classics.
I presume we will still be able to drive petrol cars after 2040 but will there still be enough petrol stations around in which to buy fuel?
Also in all the talk about the dreaded driverless cars, the only question the media seems to address is whether they are safe or not.
What no-one seem to ask is: what about all those people who ENJOY driving - who don't want to be ferried about in a tedious machine which drives itself?
In these articles, all those journos seem to treat cars as purely a means of getting around. They seem to forget about the driving experience which of course will be lost.
 
Riddler said:
But what none of the papers or TV reports ever mention is the classic car scene - what impact all of this will have on the thousands of people who own and run classics.
Click to expand...

Do you really think the government give a monkey's about that? Sure, there are a lot of classics, but small beer compared to dailies, and as for the associated businesses, well they will just say they can alter their business to suit the new era. It's happened before and it will happen again. Even your post you say "thousands" of owners will be affected, and those sorts of numbers don't worry them until there's an election.
 
The power infrastructure simply wont cope with everyone charging electric cars at home. The power generating side right down to the individual supply is not capable of supplying either the demand or actually delivering the power to the consumer.
If half a dozen people in my street were to charge an electric car overnight the overhead supply cables would be glowing and the poles alight.
It is all posturing because of the 31st July deadline given to the govt by the high court to do something for failing to meet EU pollution limits.
 
I've read that there are calls from certain groups to introduce a ban on new diesels by 2025. Am I the only one that sees this as completely daft and counter productive? Fair enough if they go ahead with clean air zones that ban pre Euro 6 complaint cars from certain areas, but given that it's far more efficient that petrol, and produces lower CO2 levels it seems silly. Diesels have really come along way in the last 10 years, and now, since everyone has jumped on the emissions scandal band wagon, their development could now be strangled. I think the ultimate solution is a diesel plug in hybrid. Set up low emission zone electric only zones that force the cars ECU to switch to electric only when you enter them. If you're too low on charge and your engine keeps running, then you pay a penalty fee similar to the congestion charge. That allows the infrastructure to develop, the technology to develop, it cuts CO2 and particulates and still provides drivers with a reliable range. You could expand the system further to lower risk zones that do the same thing if air quality drops to a pre determined level. It would also leave the door open for duel fuel running on CNG. Just a though. Seems largely counter productive though as industry and poorly maintained domestic heating systems continue to chuck out all sorts. A return to us all burning petrol is a nightmare scenario.
Regards,
Dave
 
Couple all of the above with the huge cost in energy and emissions needed to produce the batteries and the fact that battery life is relatively short it does not stack up at all.
I know we need to save the planet, but it would be good to actually save it and not gloss over and hide the unsavoury elements of going green.
I think we need to work on making the internal combustion engine cleaner for now until a properly viable alternative is ready.
 
while environment issues and effect on health is cited as driving force to phase out fossil fuel machinery . the real issue of excess and growing population that creates demand. uses energy. pollutes planet and creates food and housing shortages is ignored.
aside from fact growth of population is the driving dynamo behind current economy ( jobs .created .wealth . etc as demand for goods and services climbs) transport is without doubt an issue .goods .people and leisure are combined . there are alternatives .eg alcohol .gas . and hybrids are way forward. actual mileage on roads will be recorded and limits given. exceeding will result in fines as will not having a live trackable gps signal at all times. big brother on way .
we can or ought to assist in trying to limit emissions but not all historic vehicles are suitable for upgrading e.g. catalysts . hybrid engines and costs of doing so are in main beyond most historic car owners pocket depths.
a limit on mileage for each type of car . etc may be a more reasonable way forward ( with GPS tracking) and any unused mileage carried over. to say max of 5 years . thus enabling a long journey say time a decade or short ones each week?
pollution emissions to to be set and monitored thus encouraging owners to fully maintain engines . upgrade where viable . ( maybe a tax rebate or tax free ) a large chunk of economy also rests no historic car.trucks , as does jobs. charities benefit a lot too. so no easy answers but we as responsible caring owners have to play a part and try to keep using where reasonable . ( no driving through a shopping mall on weekends when sales on etc ) as to car sales. it would be far more sensible to reduce world pollution an energy needs by leasing ALL new cars.trucks.vans and not allowing outright ownership. thus maintenance can be better recorded . no excess energy usage making new vehicles . its kinder to planet to reuse old parts etc as new uses far more energy and create more CO2 etc .
other fuels need tax breaks to push them into mainstream too.
 
Remember the "Paperless Office" prediction in the 70's? How about the "Millenium Bug" in computers? "Global Warming?"

Is this fuel scaremongering just another over-hyped thing for the media to latch onto?
 
Quagmire said:
I work for an oil and gas contractor so I am a bit conflicted! However, we do renewables too - see here some work we did for Statoil on the Hywind project just in the last couple of weeks. The semi-submersible crane vessel is ours:

Click to expand...
I haven't seen the SAIPEM 1000 for ages. She was in Cape Town harbour in the 90's for a while and the company I worked for then did a crew change for her when she was underway to take off the support crew that were on board. I remember there was a NOTAM out for the time she was in harbour due to the height of the cranes, very impressive vessel.
I also did a few flights to the THIALF while she was off Malabo in '06-ish.
 
She is a big old beast yes! Before I first went onboard everyone said "Well you know how you know she's big - well, she'll still be bigger than you expect when you get there!" and they were right...

For perspective, the height from the bottom of the turbine structure to the nacelle is the same as the height of Big Ben:

Hywind_20line-up_20Scott_20Monument_20Edinburgh.png
 
Here in Australia we have the situation that everything and I mean everything is transported by diesel powered semi trailers, some are double B road trains in the territories. The motorways are very busy and one has to juggle a trip with
juggernauts only meters away from ones door. Unless semis are made electric assisted , the call for no more petrol and diesel vehicles is pointless, it will never happen in Asia , this side of the world !
Australia has over one million trucks, we are having power outs due to lack of electricity generation, so where is all this extra power coming from? the sun or wind, not likely , the government has reduced the solar subsidy to 6 cents, it is
now not realistic to have solar installed, and all this in a country with unlimited sunshine.
Peter
 
It's only a ban on the sale of new fossil-fuel cars.
There will still be millions of them on the roads & many people will learn to keep their present vehicle rather than making another large purchase on a thing that will lose a third of it's value as soon as they drive it out of the showroom.
Though leasing will become a much bigger part of (non) ownership.
 
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