2000TC Heavy steering and lots of effort required when cornering

#22
Hi Dave, someone has already asked that and its on 165R14's standard size. I keep them pumped up a bit harder than the book says too, around 28psi or so. You are dead right though, even a small increase in tyre width could make the steering heavy - I remember that from the non-PAS car's I owned back in the day.

On this car its quite likely the camber is a bit out of whack, which I think explains the higher steering force when turning right. But at parking speeds it's truly muscle building stuff. I'll change these link bushes as soon as I get chance, but I'll wager the steering is still heavy, even after that. Like I first said though, you soon forget what some non PAS cars were like!

When its all jacked up off ground, you can grab a wheel and steer it left to right, albeit with quite a bit of resistance. Thing is I don't know how freely they are meant to move, with wheels up. The only other cars I've got here have power assisted rack and pinion, so are useless to compare with.

Interestingly I was watching a youtube video a few days ago, by a fella with a 2200TC who reckoned his steering was quite light, which made me think at some point it would be interesting to drive another car by way of comparison.

Incidentally I've found some slim spring compressors which look like they would do for getting the spring out, sealey ak3846 or possibly ak3841.

Thanks again for all the helpful replies, this forum really is a great community!
I have also noticed despite the fact that I replaced all four tyres with 165's that my steering is also heavy, so I imagine my camber is out. The problem I have is that not many so-called tyre companies have any clue on what should be the correct spec. Please let me know how you get on. I still have other electrical issues to resolve before I can get my car back on the road. I really love my car and like many on this forum, it is a labour of love...
 

jp928

Active Member
#23
IIRC I loosened the bellcrank bolts (both inner & outer) just enough to slip , initially, 1/8" washers in, both upper and lower bolts. This was too much, next try was , as best I recall, 1/16". And be aware that too much caster makes the car VERY dangerous to drive, with no self centreing at all!
 

sdibbers

Well-Known Member
#24
There seems to be some confusion here:

@Davedstone caster will affect steering weight and self centering. Camber can affect grip during cornering.

@jp928 adding shims or washers reduces camber. Reduced camber will also reduce self centering and straight line stability. I’ve used 1/32” shims for adjustment.

I believe the standard caster angle for the P6 can be measured as 8.5° on the vertical on the steering upright @harveyp6 can confirm this.
 
#25
When I get my car mobile, then I will take this to a tyre center to see if they can measure this. Thank you for the information.
Note: Where can you get these shims from?
 
#27
I believe the standard caster angle for the P6 can be measured as 8.5° on the vertical on the steering upright @harveyp6 can confirm this.
That's not right, from the 1967 factory manual
1) camber : 0deg +/- 1deg
2) castor: 0.5 deg positive +/- 0.5degree
3) swivel pin inclination: 8 deg

1) is the angle of the wheel when viewed from the front, negative means the wheels splay out
2) is the angle of the king pin (steering axis) when viewed from the side. Positive means it leans backwards
3) swivel pin inclination is the king spin (steering axis) when viewed from the front, in other words the angle of the suspension upright.

2) can't be measured directly, you have to turn the steering through two known angles and measure the wheel vertical angle at both points.. There is a formula you use to work out the castor, from those readings. Professional equipment such as laser jigs does this for you.

Too much negative camber would make the steering heavy. Thing is, the way that front suspension works the camber changes a lot as the wheel goes through the full travel. On full rebound the positive camber is of comic-book proportions, so it makes you think that as the suspension gets to full bump it's going to go the other way, and get more negative. Taking that reasoning a step further, I wonder if the following is likely? tired front springs -> lower ride height -> negative camber -> heavy steering?
 
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sdibbers

Well-Known Member
#28
That's not right, from the 1967 factory manual
1) camber : 0deg +/- 1deg
2) castor: 0.5 deg positive +/- 0.5degree
3) swivel pin inclination: 8 deg

1) is the angle of the wheel when viewed from the front, negative means the wheels splay out
2) is the angle of the king pin (steering axis) when viewed from the side. Positive means it leans backwards
3) swivel pin inclination is the king spin (steering axis) when viewed from the front, in other words the angle of the suspension upright.

2) can't be measured directly, you have to turn the steering through two known angles and measure the wheel vertical angle at both points.. There is a formula you use to work out the castor, from those readings. Professional equipment such as laser jigs does this for you.

Too much negative camber would make the steering heavy. Thing is, the way that front suspension works the camber changes a lot as the wheel goes through the full travel. On full rebound the positive camber is of comic-book proportions, so it makes you think that as the suspension gets to full bump it's going to go the other way, and get more negative. Taking that reasoning a step further, I wonder if the following is likely? tired front springs -> lower ride height -> negative camber -> heavy steering?
I idea is the steering pillar is at 8.5° which is equal to 0-1° of camber as the ball joints are offset at the ends.
 

jp928

Active Member
#29
sdibbers wrote "@jp928 adding shims or washers reduces camber. Reduced camber will also reduce self centering and straight line stability. I’ve used 1/32” shims for adjustment. "
If you add shims to BOTH bellcrank mounts the top balljoint moves forward, and reduces caster. Adding shims to the inner mount only changes camber positively, to the outer mount only changes camber negatively.
 
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