1968 2000 TC Restoration Project

#41
One of the decisions I had to make for the car was what to install for a radio. The car was dealer equipped with a Blaupunkt Frankfurt Series Z radio. This is a mono AM-FM-SW unit. This is the radio that was in the car when I acquired it in 1978 and still worked. In 1978 I installed a Radio Shack AM/FM stereo cassette deck. It no longer works. I had a few alternatives. 1. Buy a modern 1-DIN radio. 2. Reinstall the Blaupunkt Unit. 3. Buy a new retro style radio that has USB and Bluetooth. 4. Upgrade the Blaupunkt unit with modern circuitry including USB and Bluetooth. 5. Upgrade a British Motor Corporation radio originally installed in my ’65 2000. 6. Repair the Radio Shack unit.
I wanted to keep a retro looking radio that has Stereo capability and the ability to play either via USB or Bluetooth. The fancy neon display of the modern radio alternatives would not suit the car, so I dismissed that idea after checking them out. Upgrading the Blaupunkt unit seemed like a good idea until I learned that I could sell the unit for top dollar. Apparently it is highly sought after by the Porsche 911 concours folks. Repairing the Radio Shack unit was possible but although it has analog tuning, it is still not a real fit for the car’s vintage. It also lacks USB and Bluetooth. The BMC unit has some cosmetic issues and would not look the best.
I landed on purchasing a new Retro looking unit with AM/FM radio and USB/Bluetooth capability. It has a digital display but has retro looking knobs. The circuitry is fully digital. I installed the unit and it worked well until I started driving. As soon as I would accelerate, the radio would cut out and would start a woop, woop sound. Great! I talked to the supplier and they told me that it was probably due to ignition noise and was likely especially bad as I had a current loop type tachometer. Apparently the units don’t have great noise immunity. Strange for a product that is meant for the classic car market. I disconnected the tach and bypassed the ignition wiring that ran to the tach. The radio worked much better. I knew that I could convert my Smiths RVI tachometer to have RVC voltage sensing circuitry. I did that conversion and changed the wiring from the distributor and coil accordingly. Unfortunately the radio still would get scrambled on occasion, usually during acceleration or deceleration as the timing would move. I was also not very happy with the calibration and linearity of the circuitry in the converted tachometer. That is where things were when I parked the car for the winter.
I have since decided to convert the Blaupunkt radio to digital circuitry. So much for a resale. This conversion vendor assures me that they have much better noise immunity. The vendor of the tachometer conversion circuitry was very supportive but I decided to move on and sent the tachometer to Nisonger Instruments where they installed new RVC circuitry and calibrated the unit. Come May, I will be able to test it all out. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
 

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#43
One of the upgrades I did during my rebuild was to change out the points for an electronic ignition module. The type that fits inside the distributor. I do not know the brand name of the unit. I picked it up from one of the traditional Rover parts suppliers. I installed it according to instructions with lots of heat sink compound but the car started running rough after approximately 200 kms. I checked the timing and it had become erratic. I would have thought that when those units fail, they would just stop working completely. I reinstalled my points until I could procure a new system. This time I went with a Lumenition Optronic system. I hid the separate control box under the old dynamo control box. I expect that having the separate control box should allow for much better heat dissipation and longer life. The timing light shows very tight ignition timing and the engine is running smoothly. I will also mention that my radio issue from the above post persisted with the original electronic module, the points and the Optronic unit.

During the testing and tuning period after the engine rebuild, I was finding that I had to advance the timing further than the 6 degrees recommended in the manual for the 2000 TC to get good performance. I was wondering how much difference going to the 9:1 CR 2200 pistons would make as well as the impact of today's fuel. I sought some advice from Steven Dibbers who had gone through the same upgrade. He recommended Advanced Distributors to recurve my distributor and recommend base timing settings. Jeff did a great job on the rebuild and recommended a base timing setting of 12 to 15 Deg BTDC. Setting anything other than 6 Degrees BTDC is my car is pure guesswork. On engines of my vintage, the timing is accessed through a window on the flywheel and there are exactly 3 marks on the flywheel. An EP mark for setting the valve timing, a TDC mark and a 6 Deg mark (for the 2000 TC). When I have the engine and gearbox out for the speedometer drive repair, I plan on adding several more timing marks in the 12 to 15 degree range. I looked at adding the timing indicator bracket used on the later cars but the block casting does not have the mounting points for the bracket used in the later cars.
 
#44
Before the work on my car I had a completely custom exhaust system that had been built out of necessity as factory or reproduction systems were not available. At the time of the teardown, the system consisted of one glasspack muffler basically located in the location where the first can would be in a standard 3 can system. There was a 2 chamber muffler at the back of the car. There was plenty of room for an oval 2 chamber muffler here. I purchased a 2 can SS system and installed it. I find that the car is quite a bit louder than it was before and a bit louder than I want. I am contemplating buying a shorter front pipe and the first can to convert to a standard 3 can system. Does anyone have experience with the difference in sound levels between the 2 and 3 can systems?
 
#45
One of the decisions I had to make for the car was what to install for a radio. The car was dealer equipped with a Blaupunkt Frankfurt Series Z radio. This is a mono AM-FM-SW unit. This is the radio that was in the car when I acquired it in 1978 and still worked. In 1978 I installed a Radio Shack AM/FM stereo cassette deck. It no longer works. I had a few alternatives. 1. Buy a modern 1-DIN radio. 2. Reinstall the Blaupunkt Unit. 3. Buy a new retro style radio that has USB and Bluetooth. 4. Upgrade the Blaupunkt unit with modern circuitry including USB and Bluetooth. 5. Upgrade a British Motor Corporation radio originally installed in my ’65 2000. 6. Repair the Radio Shack unit.
I wanted to keep a retro looking radio that has Stereo capability and the ability to play either via USB or Bluetooth. The fancy neon display of the modern radio alternatives would not suit the car, so I dismissed that idea after checking them out. Upgrading the Blaupunkt unit seemed like a good idea until I learned that I could sell the unit for top dollar. Apparently it is highly sought after by the Porsche 911 concours folks. Repairing the Radio Shack unit was possible but although it has analog tuning, it is still not a real fit for the car’s vintage. It also lacks USB and Bluetooth. The BMC unit has some cosmetic issues and would not look the best.
I landed on purchasing a new Retro looking unit with AM/FM radio and USB/Bluetooth capability. It has a digital display but has retro looking knobs. The circuitry is fully digital. I installed the unit and it worked well until I started driving. As soon as I would accelerate, the radio would cut out and would start a woop, woop sound. Great! I talked to the supplier and they told me that it was probably due to ignition noise and was likely especially bad as I had a current loop type tachometer. Apparently the units don’t have great noise immunity. Strange for a product that is meant for the classic car market. I disconnected the tach and bypassed the ignition wiring that ran to the tach. The radio worked much better. I knew that I could convert my Smiths RVI tachometer to have RVC voltage sensing circuitry. I did that conversion and changed the wiring from the distributor and coil accordingly. Unfortunately the radio still would get scrambled on occasion, usually during acceleration or deceleration as the timing would move. I was also not very happy with the calibration and linearity of the circuitry in the converted tachometer. That is where things were when I parked the car for the winter.
I have since decided to convert the Blaupunkt radio to digital circuitry. So much for a resale. This conversion vendor assures me that they have much better noise immunity. The vendor of the tachometer conversion circuitry was very supportive but I decided to move on and sent the tachometer to Nisonger Instruments where they installed new RVC circuitry and calibrated the unit. Come May, I will be able to test it all out. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
Is this the sort of thing you bought?

Bluetooth Retro Car Radio MP3 Player Stereo USB For AUX Classic Car Stereo Audio | eBay

I've bought a couple but haven't tried them yet. Cheap as chips so it doesn't matter too much if they're not much cop but l did think one would look quite at home in my A60 Morris Oxford, more so than the Rover's l reckon but l thought l'd buy a couple while they were cheap. Though actually they haven't risen in price since my purchase anyway.
 
#46
Is this the sort of thing you bought?

Bluetooth Retro Car Radio MP3 Player Stereo USB For AUX Classic Car Stereo Audio | eBay

I've bought a couple but haven't tried them yet. Cheap as chips so it doesn't matter too much if they're not much cop but l did think one would look quite at home in my A60 Morris Oxford, more so than the Rover's l reckon but l thought l'd buy a couple while they were cheap. Though actually they haven't risen in price since my purchase anyway.
The one I originally went with was pricier and more classic looking. It even came with a faux analog tuning dial sticker to cover the display.
 

Demetris

Well-Known Member
#47
am contemplating buying a shorter front pipe and the first can to convert to a standard 3 can system. Does anyone have experience with the difference in sound levels between the 2 and 3 can systems?
I did the same in my series 1 TC and it made a significant difference in the exhaust noise, even though the first can is straight through item. Of course now sometimes i miss the rasping noise signature from the original exhaust. On can never be happy enough.
I would advice you to introduce a flexible piece in the front of the system. In my case it solved all the problems with cracked systems.
DSC01016.web.JPG
 
#48
I did the same in my series 1 TC and it made a significant difference in the exhaust noise, even though the first can is straight through item. Of course now sometimes i miss the rasping noise signature from the original exhaust. On can never be happy enough.
I would advice you to introduce a flexible piece in the front of the system. In my case it solved all the problems with cracked systems.
Thanks for the advice Demetris. Had you already eliminated the attachment bracket by the starter?
 
#50
I had to make a decision on what to do with the bonnet insulation. The old panels were in rough shape but still mostly there. I looked to see if they could be cleaned and reused, but that was not possible. The choices were to go without the insulation (I had painted the underside of the bonnet so it would have looked all right) or find a replacement. The existing panels have sculpted edges to enable them to fit under the bonnet crossmembers and I knew that I would not be able to find anything customised to that extent. In the end, I purchased "Universal 1/2" Black Matt Faced Hood Insulation" from Detroit Muscle Technologies. I was able to use the old insulation panels as templates to cut the new material, extrapolating where parts of the old panels were missing accordingly. Although the new material is 1/2 inch thick, it compressed easily enough to slide the edges behind the bonnet cross members. I had to use some high temperature adhesive in one spot on the larger centre front panel to hold it securely in place, otherwise all panels held just with the friction fit. The appearance is very similar to the original panels and I still have the advantages of having bonnet insulation.
 

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#51
That looks very proper. Were you able to re-use your original millboard liner for the boot lid? New ones are available but expensive and awkward to send. My car was lacking one, but I made one guided by photographs and using a paper template. It looks almost exactly like the original.

Your completed car looks absolutely wonderful. I share your pain with the speedo as mine, too, has just stopped working owing to some problem at the gearbox end.
 
#52
That looks very proper. Were you able to re-use your original millboard liner for the boot lid? New ones are available but expensive and awkward to send. My car was lacking one, but I made one guided by photographs and using a paper template. It looks almost exactly like the original.

Your completed car looks absolutely wonderful. I share your pain with the speedo as mine, too, has just stopped working owing to some problem at the gearbox end.
Thanks for the positive comments on the project. Good luck with your speedo drive issue. I know that with mine it must be the spindle gear that has stripped. I just don't want it to happen a second time. Previously I thought that the cable or the angle drives were the weak point in the system.

My boot lid liner was very warped due to moisture and I did not want to reuse it. It still served as a good template and I was able to find a local upholstery shop that was able to make a new one out of almost identical material. They also made a replacement cover for the fuel tank area that duplicated that heavier material. I was going to attach a photo to this post but see that I have no photos of my boot area with the lid open. I will have to correct that in the future.
 
#53
Re the plastic speedo drive gear, it is indeed possible to extract it via the small access panel in the transmission tunnel because I have just done so. I gently tapped the housing's edge with a small screwdriver to get the housing to rotate and loosen, and then I was able to work it out of the gearbox complete with what turned out to be quite a mashed-up gear. The cause of the failure seems to be that the shaft had become very stiff to turn in its housing. I don't know why that happened. New gears appear to be unobtainable, so maybe there's an opportunity for someone to 3D-print new ones – sdibbers, who knows all about such things? I've managed to order a 'good secondhand' one from the ever-helpful Geoff Unwin at Wins, plus the rubber seal that fits on top – my car's seal has gone rock-hard and I think was the source of a small oil leak.
 
#54
Re the plastic speedo drive gear, it is indeed possible to extract it via the small access panel in the transmission tunnel because I have just done so. I gently tapped the housing's edge with a small screwdriver to get the housing to rotate and loosen, and then I was able to work it out of the gearbox complete with what turned out to be quite a mashed-up gear. The cause of the failure seems to be that the shaft had become very stiff to turn in its housing. I don't know why that happened. New gears appear to be unobtainable, so maybe there's an opportunity for someone to 3D-print new ones – sdibbers, who knows all about such things? I've managed to order a 'good second hand' one from the ever-helpful Geoff Unwin at Wins, plus the rubber seal that fits on top – my car's seal has gone rock-hard and I think was the source of a small oil leak.
In the past I have tried using a thin bladed screwdriver to alternately pry up on the sides of the nylon housing and have met with no success. I have never tried to spin it to loosen it. I will keep this in mind for the future. This time around, I will still pull the engine and gearbox as I have a couple of other items to take care of that require an engine removal. I replaced the spindle, housing and seal this time around with NOS ones I had sourced from Geoff 3 years ago. It will be interesting to see how tight the spindle is in the housing when I get it removed. I have already sourced replacements from Geoff. The fact that mine failed so quickly after the rebuild makes me wonder if I should use a different lubricant when assembling this time around. I used a silicone grease last time and would have thought that would work well. The presence of the oil seal, and the fact that we see leaks there, indicates that the gearbox oil must be getting into the spindle housing and providing sufficient lubrication for operation.
 

Barten

Active Member
#55
Very impressive restoration job ! I guess you have had a lot of work done professionally, but even so this is a great achievement in such a short time period! I spent almost 27 years doing up my red rover. I have a 1965 2000 as my next project. Just have to finish a 1968 Saab V4 first.
Most of all : Congratulations on an excellent P6!
 
#56
Very impressive restoration job ! I guess you have had a lot of work done professionally, but even so this is a great achievement in such a short time period! I spent almost 27 years doing up my red rover. I have a 1965 2000 as my next project. Just have to finish a 1968 Saab V4 first.
Most of all : Congratulations on an excellent P6!
Thanks for the positive feedback on the project. Other than the welding, painting and the basic engine work (i.e. cylinder boring), the work was all mine. I was in a position where I could devote most of my time to the project and that helped keep things moving. A lot of hours were invested. It is a good thing my time is free.;)
Good luck with your '65 project. My '65 is too far gone to consider doing further work on. I am just trying to preserve it the best I can in an outdoor storage situation as a source for potential parts for my '68 TC.
 

jp928

Active Member
#57
So inspiring to see all this work, and the excellent documentation - thank you!. Re the overheating and ignition timing change - I had a TC once that ran hotter the faster it went, and it was fixed by advancing the timing.
Keep up the good work .
thanks
 
#58
Re the overheating and ignition timing change - I had a TC once that ran hotter the faster it went, and it was fixed by advancing the timing.
Thanks for the information on the timing. I have it about as far advanced as I can with it still running reasonably. Of course, I have no idea of what the static timing is as I only have the one 8 degree mark on the flywheel. One of my projects this year is to add more marks to the flywheel so I have a better sense of where the timing is.
Speaking of work, I brought my car out of winter storage today. Some how I have amassed a list of 45 items on my "to do" list. Some are small, some are larger. Definitely enough to keep me busy for a while. I will provide updates on the more interesting ones.
 
#59
I pulled the engine from the car yesterday and started on my list of "to do" items. The first was my speedometer drive problem. I was able to remove the nylon housing without having to pull off the speedo drive housing and hammer it out from the inside. Much easier to remove after 1 year being in place rather than the 50 years in place the last time I removed it. I still had not been able to remove the nylon housing with the gearbox in place. I fully expected to see that thy nylon gear was stripped. To my surprise, the gear was fully intact and I started to second guess my original diagnosis of the problem. Then I held the spindle in one hand and the gear in the other and found that they turned completely independently. I am not sure how the shaft was attached to the nylon gear but they will not come apart but now spin independently. I have a replacement gear, nylon housing and oil seal ready to go in place. I gave the replacement spindle and gear a good twist to make sure the fit is a solid one. One item down, 44 to go.
 
#60
While the engine and gearbox are out, I wanted to add more timing marks to the flywheel to facilitate setting the timing. When I had the distributor recurved at Advanced Distributor, I was told to set the "low RPM, vacuum off" timing to 12 to 15 degrees with the recurved unit. With only TDC and 6 DEG marks, that was difficult to do. It was easy to use dividers to measure out the distance on the flywheel between the TDC and 6 DEG lines and just add 12 DEG and 18 DEG lines. I should be able to see 2 of the lines at a time in the window on the bell housing and get to the 12 to 15 DEG range. I painted the pointer, lines and DEG numerals to make it easier to see with the timing light. Photo of the final product attached.
 

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