Alignment specs

I have heard folks remove the damper, disconnect the ARB, put a jack under the lower arm and raise to take the weight, then loosen off the inner nuts on the upper bellcrank/ bulkhead mounts and then lower the jack allowing the studs to pull through the bulkhead. This releases nearly all the energy from the spring.
Be careful.
 
That’s strange, most of them are showing back in my project thread now..I certainly haven’t upgraded..

However my signature is still blurred out for me..

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Get yourself one of this type, I did and felt much more confidence in the process using it, especially as I didn’t have my engine in at the time..

View attachment 15363

Wildly varied prices as per usual.. but think mine was around £60 like this one

Universal Coil Spring Compressor Kit Macpherson Car Auto Struts Suspension New 708191946434 | eBay

Jim
That looks the ticket! I tried a clamshell style one and that was too bulky for the space. The standard hook styles I couldn’t get on both sides and it felt pretty iffy on the side I could get on.
 
Seeing as I have been through the exercise of a depressed bulkhead causing excessive caster already, I plan to check the caster when I get my 74 P6B. It has PAS which will probably mask bad caster - previous case was manual steering and the problem was very obvious. One of my clubs has a wheel alignment kit which I hope can measure the caster, so will report back when it happens.
 
You can adjust them to an extent by shimming the top pivot mounts. Camber by inner or outer mounts being shimmed, caster by shimming both inner and outer mounts.
So how would I go about shimming the top pivot mounts?Ever since I replaced my upper and lower ball joints,and now the complete swivel pillar assy I have too much negative camber
Thanks,John
 
So how would I go about shimming the top pivot mounts?Ever since I replaced my upper and lower ball joints,and now the complete swivel pillar assy I have too much negative camber
Thanks,John
For reduced negative camber you’d want to shim the inner mounts. Loosen the top pivot bolts from behind the glove boxes and the mount will pull away from the bulkhead. Add some shims and re-tighten. That’ll effectively move the top ball joint outwards. Before you do that confirm they’re out by driving the car and rechecking. P6 suspension likes to relax after you’ve jacked it up.
 
For reduced negative camber you’d want to shim the inner mounts. Loosen the top pivot bolts from behind the glove boxes and the mount will pull away from the bulkhead. Add some shims and re-tighten. That’ll effectively move the top ball joint outwards. Before you do that confirm they’re out by driving the car and rechecking. P6 suspension likes to relax after you’ve jacked it up.
Okey dokey,Thanks
 
I would approach this a little cautiously as to how much shim. When I tried to fix my caster problem, IIRC, I tried something like handy 1/8" washers, with a slot cut in them so they could be dropped over the bolt. It was way too much - the steering was terrible, light, and zero self centering which meant you had to wind the wheel back to centre after every turn. Just doing the inner mount wont have as much of an effect, but be prepared for multiple tries. Suggest you get a real measurement of your camber before, with the car level, and all heights set up as per the manual. I found the subtle curve of the front guards always make the fronts look like they have negative camber. The book says 0 +/- 1degree. Some cars are sensitive to camber in small amounts - MX5s are much better in corners with -1.5d, rising to -2d for track work. Std is -1.0d IIRC.
 
I would approach this a little cautiously as to how much shim. When I tried to fix my caster problem, IIRC, I tried something like handy 1/8" washers, with a slot cut in them so they could be dropped over the bolt. It was way too much - the steering was terrible, light, and zero self centering which meant you had to wind the wheel back to centre after every turn. Just doing the inner mount wont have as much of an effect, but be prepared for multiple tries. Suggest you get a real measurement of your camber before, with the car level, and all heights set up as per the manual. I found the subtle curve of the front guards always make the fronts look like they have negative camber. The book says 0 +/- 1degree. Some cars are sensitive to camber in small amounts - MX5s are much better in corners with -1.5d, rising to -2d for track work. Std is -1.0d IIRC.

Thanks for the insight
John
 
I doubt that any P6 came with shims as standard. According to the manuals, "The camber, castor & swivel pin inclination are all fixed and non-adjustable." Now there are spacer washers on the top link mounts that you could mistake as an adjustment shim, but that's not what they are.

Yours
Vern
 
@Vern Klukas, correct on the shims from the factory. But we are discussing rectification of alignment after 40+ years of use. A number of folks have noticed that the bulkhead moves back a little over the years giving excessive caster and variable camber. So by adding shims we can fix this.
 
Also the geometry of the RH front wheel in my Rover was nowhere near what it should be, probably the previous owner must have hit something quite substantial. We brought it back by shimming the top link and slotting the front bottom link mounting hole. Thankfully the shop that did the work was apparently quite competent, and didn't fear of doing what it takes to correct the funny front wheel geometry. But it took as i remember the best part of a morning, moving slowly and checking all the necessary measurements each time. It's not something to do at home.
 
For those who want to measure caster :-
Caster (deg) = (180 / 3.1415) * [(camber1 - camber2) / (turnangle1 - turnangle2)]
That is , measure camber with wheels some angle off straight (eg 20deg)right, then again with wheels 20d left, done for each side separately.
Eg. 20left to 20 right is 40deg; if camber changes 2deg over the 40 degree angle change then caster is 57.3 x 2/40 =2.865. If the camber changes from +ve to -ve add the values, only subtract if they are both the same sign.
Spec caster is 1.5 +/- 0.5d.
One way to get the turn angle right cheaply (without buying turn plates) is to set the front wheels on plastic sheets (possibly with water or oil underneath) so its easy to turn the wheels. Make a template in heavy card or similar with a long 20d angle cut in it . With wheels straight ahead, steering wheel centrered, mark a line close to tyre parallel to the wheel line. Place the template on the line with the start of the angle cut at the centre of the tyre patch, turn the wheel to match the 20d cut, measure camber. Return wheel to centre, turn template over so 20d cut is on opposite side of wheel, turn wheel to match the angle cut, measure camber. Any angle will do (eg 15,25d), but I think smaller angles will be less accurate as the camber change gets smaller. Got this off the web somewhere.....
HTH
 
Quote "Anybody got another suggestion on spring removal. "
Look up a pic of the factory spring removal tools (600304) - they are simply 3 rods with one flattened end, and the other with a hook. The flattened end goes in from the front, through a matching slot at the rear plate, load the front end down a bit, turn the rods 90d so the flattened end is trapped, release the load, maybe jack the front a bit, spring should be loose, and safe. Our club here in Oz has a set. With a pic and dimensions they should be easy to make.
 
spring should be loose, and safe.
I think that you meant to say that the spring will be under high tension, not loose. As for the safety aspect, given the stored energy in the spring, it is related to the integrity of the end plates, which in their turn could be well compromised given their age.
I understand that this method was devised by Rover at the time, with a priority on quick service times, not safety 50 years later.
 
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