Wire Wheel Hub/Spline wear - Help

P

p6baseunit

Member
If any of you are familar with the wire wheels that were an option on the 2000tc.
My car has a set made in 2006 by MWS - http://www.mwsint.com/custom/Fitmen...p?category=87&carId=FG000137&make=RO&CarYear=
The car has probably driven around 6000 miles on the wheels and I seem to have some wear on the NSR wheel/hub.

Originally I thought it was a worn outer UJ but on closer inspection with the spanner off, the movement in the wheel seems to be on the splines.
The hub is rock solid when I try turning it by hand.

At the tyre I get about 1cm of movement. There is no movement in the OSR wheel. I tried the brand new spare wheel and there may have been slightly less movement, but not much.

I spoke to MWS and the guy there directed me to their technical page - http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentviewarticle.asp?article=421 and stated that 1cm of wheel movement at the tyre was nothing to worry about at the moment.

1cm of movement seemed a lot to me... What do others think?
 
You should get the hub off the driveshaft without a puller, but you'll probably need a puller or press to dismantle the part you've got to replace from the hub. You'll need a new collapsable spacer, and although the WM will tell you that you can pull the bearings off, in practice you'll most probably find they'll break when you try, so you'll need a set of those too.
 
Thanks Harvey for the reply and tips
Suppose I should mention that its 1cm of rotational movement - measured at the tyre surface. The wheel/hub is rock solid to the usual wheel bearing movement test.

I took the wheel off a couple of weekends ago, as I assumed the movement was due to the outer UJ and then on further inspection discovered this was not the case.
On cleaning the crud out of the spanner groves (the big nut), greasing the splines, fitting and tightening the spanner - the rotational movement seemed much reduced - perhaps a couple of mm.

I took the car to the Buckingham railway centre for the P4 rally, which is around 50miles round trip and then on the weekend just gone, checked the wheel again and its back to the 1cm (or slightly less) of movement
 
Did you use copper grease or a bog std type grease on the spines?
Copper has less tendancy to ooze and be affected by heat!
The original set I had a few years ago were removed from a rusty 2000 and were coated in copper grease.
If you put the new wheel on and still have movement,it will be the splines on the hub section!
If the experts at MWS say its within tolerance,then I wouldnt worry!
If its your weekend car then its not getting hammered daily!
 
Thanks for the advice Pilkie!
I used bearing grease on the splines.
The only reason I noticed it as I haven't had the car too long, was in the history the last time Clive Annable saw the car (2009 or 500miles ago) he stated that there was a worn NSR UJ... Turns out it is the wires and the UJs are fine
There was a little less movement on the new spare tyre.
At first I didn't think it was an issue. I then read some horror stories on various MG forums about wheels spinning on braking or even coming off the car, due to worn hubs :shock:
 
Yeah,Too much movement can be nasty under heavy braking and the splines can build up microfractures then suddenly they give way under braking stripping them clean off and the wheel spins free and can come off!
 
I would make absolutely sure it's not the outer UJ first (Clive knows what he's doing), then check that the nut on the end of the driveshaft is tight too. If the hub nut on the wheel is done up really tight (like it should be) then there is no way you would be able to move the wheel on the splines by hand. If the hub nut isn't tight then a bit of movement is to be expected. Also check for movement in the driveshaft as the brake caliper can allow a small amount of movement too.
When the splines on mine were worn there was a noticeable clunk under braking and acceleration but I certainly couldn't move them by hand.
 
KiwiRover said:
If the hub nut on the wheel is done up really tight (like it should be) then there is no way you would be able to move the wheel on the splines by hand. If the hub nut isn't tight then a bit of movement is to be expected.
When the splines on mine were worn there was a noticeable clunk under braking and acceleration but I certainly couldn't move them by hand.
Click to expand...

This is the bit I don't understand

I have removed the spanner nut and can move the wheel, whilst watching the hub... The hub doesn't move, but a small amount of movement on the wheel to hub splines equals around 8-10mm of movement at the tyre face.
The splines have been greased (not a lot, but enough to keep them from rusting) and a little grease is on the tapered edge.
The spanner nut goes back on and is tightened by hand and then tightened by hand via the spanner has hard as it will go by hand. Movement now is perhaps 3-5mm. Car goes back on the ground and then the spanner is knocked using the hammer until there is no movement in the spanner (say three to four hits) ...
Which is great - I can drive the car 50 miles for example, lift the rear end again and 8-10mm of movement is back at the NSR wheel

The OSR, there is no movement at all.

What did your hubs look like when they were worn KiwiRover?
 
When mine were knackered the splines were noticeably worn- broad flats between the splines which were reduced to small ridges. I'll see if I can find one of the old ones and take a picture.
Going by your description, I would say tighten the hub nut properly with the car on the ground then jack it up and check for play. If the play is developing after a few miles, are the hub nuts still tight? Is the hub on the right side?
 
Before getting at all excited about this, carefully examine the splines on the hub, preferably with a magnifying glass. Splines in good condition are the shape of a loaf in cross section, with sloping sides not too far away from the vertical and quite a broad ( relatively speaking ) flattish top. Worn splines are very characteristic - they look more like the Matterhorn with a very pointed V shape and sharp tops. I would be very doubtful that a new hub would be worn to this extent in only 6000 miles.

Incidentally, I have never heard before of the syndrome described by Pilkie
 
will check the splines on my donor car very carefully before attempting any transplant!
Do we need the specific spanner to loosen the nut?
 
While checking the splines check the back end of the spline and there is a tapered piece on the hub that the wheel should back onto when you tighten the nut. You need to check this for damage and uneven wear. Also check the wheel mounting faces for damage. If either are damaged or worn the wheel will sit cockeyed and come loose no matter how hard you hit the spanner to tighten it.
 
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